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[Music]

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what's up guys ryan sprague here and i'm

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just dropping in to remind you about our

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patreon campaign somewhere in the skies

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is always free to consume but it's not

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free to create so if you want to help

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the show on a monthly basis we have tons

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of rewards for you in return including

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shout outs on the show and website bonus

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content and episodes and free merch

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want to be my guest or pick a topic for

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the show you can do that too so if you'd

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like to learn more and to help support

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the show visit patreon.com

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somewhereskies thank you and keep

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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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sprague

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mike thank you so much for joining me

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today on summer in the skies thanks for

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having me man i'm really excited to be

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here

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yeah i you know i've been following your

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your work for a while now and um as soon

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as i heard this new project you were

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working on i just i knew i had to talk

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to you not only am i a comic book nerd

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i'm clearly a ufo nerd as i'm now

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learning you are as well so this is

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gonna be fun man um we're gonna talk all

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about your uh your new project blue book

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oh i didn't even mean to do that your

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new project blue book there we go

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project comma blue book yeah let's get

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the comma in there yeah yeah uh we don't

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want to get sued or anything by the air

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force um let's let's do the origin story

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though if we're gonna go the comic book

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route man what is your

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your peter parker moment what kind of

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got you into comics um

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yeah how did it lead you to where you

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are today as a an artist a writer in the

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comic book industry how did you get to

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where you are today there we go

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you know first i can say that like

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the ufo stuff

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predates my my comic book or artistic

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life you know the ufo stuff is actually

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pretty early on formative for me um it

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started with my my mother and my and

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this will fly back in later to blue book

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uh my mother and her her sister who is

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legally blind had a ufo sighting

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and they had told me about this when i

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was a little kid

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and one of the things they were saying

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was um my aunt she can't see so she said

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but it was your mother's voice

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i knew that she was seeing something

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extraordinary and then she she knew like

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even without being able to see it that

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she was witnessing something that was

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unusual and and not

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uh you know

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probably unearthly you know or at least

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you know not normal like an airplane and

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that sort of stuff

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um so early on uh with those stories and

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like ghost stories like my mom and i we

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always watch

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um any documentary about that stuff you

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know especially in search of at the time

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was like the

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program to catch and reruns and whatnot

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so the ufo thing was was super early um

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and i think that helped my imagination

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as a kid because

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let's face when we're talking about ufos

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so much of this stuff is unknown and a

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lot of what we're doing is supposition

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and kind of putting pieces together to

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try and make sense of all this stuff so

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i think

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those early conversations helped

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my brain develop creatively um

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so that being said that the actual comic

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book stuff came in

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uh probably when i was like 12 or 13.

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um i moved from new jersey back to texas

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i had family in texas and

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even though i was born there i was

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raised in jersey and i had a very jersey

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kind of attitude and stuff and then we

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moved to texas and everything was

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different and i i i just i couldn't

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assimilate and i locked myself in my

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room

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and long story short ended up at a yard

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sale where we found some comic books and

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uh i was like okay i remember these and

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this is cool and i just kind of started

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to delve into that world

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um

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but then it was when i moved back to

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jersey shortly later i was at a 7-eleven

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and there was this x-men annual uh

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number nine that art adams drew and they

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the x-men go to asgard

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and it went from like liking comics and

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i was tracing stuff and really

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interested and started reading to going

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this is what i want to do it was it was

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that specific book and i'm not a person

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who can name off issues of comics and

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stuff there's there's only a handful

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that i can and that was so formulative

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on me it was that and the follow-up

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issues that was new mutants number two

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where the new mutants go to asgard and

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they're all together and stuff and those

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things those so those comics mixed with

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uh mythology because you know they they

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were off to see thor and stuff and

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asgard so those comics got me interested

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in mythology the mythology also came

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back to the ufo stuff like it's it's

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interesting that all it makes sense that

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these things

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influenced me um and that's sort of how

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i got into the comics and started

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drawing

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cool okay so you were an artist first

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before you started delving into writing

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as well is that correct

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yeah definitely definitely um it was a

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good place to just be in your own head

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for hours and days at a time you know

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i

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to have a challenger car when he was

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like you know a teenager and i remember

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seeing photos of him and he looked so

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cool he looked like kelso from that

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saturday show and he had his his

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challenger

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blood red car and i was like that's a

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cool comic book hero name i'm gonna give

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it a try so i ended up writing like

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20 issues of this little comic of the

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challenger created the whole mythology

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and um they got tucked away and i you

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know for years i was meaning to ask my

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mom like whatever happened to those and

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she told me that she accidentally threw

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them out so i had that tragic moment of

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what could have been with the challenger

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but um classic story i know same with my

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comic books like you said x-men got me

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into the world um i remember

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specifically

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i was i was an athlete you know baseball

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was my life and stuff like that and then

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one night qvc of all things

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shopping network was on and they were

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doing the like uncanny x-men one through

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like 20. they were selling them as a as

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like a lot and i was like what is this

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and my mom

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was like a qvc junkie and she was like

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whoa ryan's interested in something on

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there i need to that's what i'll use

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just to relate to my kid you basically

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legitimize your your mother's view of

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your your hobby

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exactly yeah i wish that happened with

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ufos too man but um no that's a whole

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different journey but yeah i have qvc

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and my mother to think and the uncanny

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x-men for getting me into it but um wow

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i really went on a tangent this is not

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my origin this is you um

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that's pretty cool so you started

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drawing um when did you did you go to

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school

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uh for

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or anything like that

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no um i grew up uh pretty lower blue

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blue class pretty poor for for the most

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part um

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so uh yeah there wasn't any schooling

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but i was i would go to conventions and

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meet other little comic artists in new

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jersey the two guys that i met first was

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uh

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neil volks and rich rankin and they were

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doing this black and white comic called

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eagle

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um and they were local so i could be in

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touch with them and meet them and stuff

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and and those same sort of circles i met

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um adam hughes

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who's huge legendary comic book artist

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um and he was only one town over for me

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and

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like a couple years older than i was so

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we found each other just before he broke

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in and we learned from each other him

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more teaching me than anything else

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because even back then he was already

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stellar um even before he was published

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um

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so those were my schools was was meeting

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other people um and in fact i i didn't i

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didn't finish high school because i was

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cutting so many days

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to stay home and draw or i'd be up all

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night drawing and while i was

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technically passing my classes they

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started getting into this whole

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attendance thing

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um

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so so yeah they kicked me out basically

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i was i was going to have to repeat my

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junior year and i gave myself that

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summer i was like i've made some leeway

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i've been published already i was first

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published when i was like 14.

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um i was sending out

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what's called inking so when you see a

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black and white comic or color comic the

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physical line work that's called inking

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and usually there's somebody who draws

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it in pencil first and then somebody who

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goes over an ink to embellish it

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um and

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it's its own art form and it's it's

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misunderstood as kind of a joke from

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like kevin smith small rats that inkers

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are tracers it's not right i remember

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that and i know jimmy church said said

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that wasn't a real thing jimmy church

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inking is a real thing

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yeah

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so let's just get that out of the way i

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love him to death but he said that on an

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interview with you and i'm like dude

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stop that's a real job

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it's like saying you know theater's not

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um but yeah so i broke in first with

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with that very early on so i knew i had

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a chance i was like well

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if i don't get a job over the summer

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i'll just i'll i'll do the thing i'll

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get the ged or or suck it up and just

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repeat the score or whatever but i was

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able to get work and i just went forward

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and didn't look back um

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and that's not a path that obviously

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that i recommend i don't have any young

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people you have listening to your show i

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don't recommend that path but

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sometimes when

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you have a

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a passion feels like a really

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it's not in it it's not the right word

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even like you find a path in life and

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you just know

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nothing should move you off of that path

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and this is what you're going to do so

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once i really knew that

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this was all that that i had for me was

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was comics and drawing

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um it was a singular force for me i quit

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playing sports i stopped hanging out

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with friends i didn't party um i

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00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:41,360
i was just literally just drawing

277
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:43,680
constantly um

278
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:45,360
and i was just completely completely and

279
00:10:47,910 --> 00:10:46,959
utterly focused on it you know even to

280
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:47,920
this day

281
00:10:50,790 --> 00:10:49,279
um

282
00:10:52,630 --> 00:10:50,800
you know other things in my life kind of

283
00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:52,640
have to make room for the art first and

284
00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:54,399
that's not always great but it's

285
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:55,519
something that i've accepted about

286
00:11:00,150 --> 00:10:57,360
myself

287
00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:00,160
yeah it's a sacrifice a lot of artists

288
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:02,160
make and if it's gonna be

289
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:03,920
you're living i completely understand

290
00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:06,399
that i mean um well i gotta ask you this

291
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:07,440
do you

292
00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:11,120
you ever read

293
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:13,680
it's really weird um it was in that

294
00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:15,200
little town that i grew up in bordentown

295
00:11:19,190 --> 00:11:17,279
it was this old colonial town

296
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:19,200
and there was a barber there with this

297
00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:20,480
italian guy

298
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:22,000
thick italian accent still even though

299
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:23,600
he's like in the 70s

300
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:26,320
and uh like he was the town barber and i

301
00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:28,240
remember specifically as a kid going and

302
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:30,000
like sitting in this really old building

303
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:32,079
where it had super super high

304
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:34,000
ceilings and

305
00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:35,839
what is that that kind of like engraving

306
00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:37,040
on the ceilings i forget what it's

307
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:40,880
called uh but throw up on the roof

308
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:43,279
it was like from the late 1800s or early

309
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,640
1900s

310
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:46,320
and i remember sitting in a chair and

311
00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:48,000
looking to the side of me and i must

312
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:49,920
have been five or six

313
00:11:54,069 --> 00:11:52,399
and i saw spider-man and even though i

314
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:54,079
couldn't read it i understood what it

315
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:54,959
was

316
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:58,880
called the electric company which had

317
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:01,600
these skits of live-action spider-man

318
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:03,040
um

319
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:04,639
and they were really goofy and they're

320
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,399
fun to watch on youtube morgan freeman

321
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:08,399
was in some of them and stuff and

322
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:10,639
um but that's that's the thing i

323
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:11,760
remember so i don't remember that

324
00:12:16,230 --> 00:12:13,680
specific issue but i remember that's

325
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:16,240
when it first really got on my radar but

326
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,920
it wasn't until that move to texas that

327
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:19,680
i really um

328
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:21,120
delved into it and i think those first

329
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:22,959
books i picked up were there was a

330
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:24,480
couple like sergeant rocks and one of

331
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:27,839
them was uh peter parker um spectacular

332
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:29,920
spider-man um

333
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:31,519
yeah it might be fun to track them down

334
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:34,160
and to have them again uh and i can't

335
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:36,639
tell you exactly what it was

336
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:39,440
that drew me in i think there was just i

337
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:41,200
was just primed for certain things like

338
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:42,880
my mother always drew

339
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:45,600
um and not to get too deep or too much

340
00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:48,000
tmi stuff but my mom had a drinking

341
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,480
problem so she was she was a hardcore

342
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:52,399
alcoholic and so for years she couldn't

343
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:53,519
live with us

344
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:55,200
while she was getting better

345
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:57,360
but she would write me letters and

346
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:58,959
and she handled all that stuff she got

347
00:13:01,350 --> 00:13:00,320
through it we got back together it was

348
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:01,360
great but

349
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:03,200
she would write me letters and draw

350
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:05,600
so that sense of like the

351
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:07,519
my world was basically waiting for my

352
00:13:09,910 --> 00:13:08,480
mother

353
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:09,920
you know waiting for her to get better

354
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:11,839
and i'd get these letters so there was

355
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:13,120
something about drawing that was

356
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:15,040
emotional to me that was that was very

357
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:16,160
personal

358
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:18,320
and then with the ufo and mythology kind

359
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:20,320
of stuff you know paranormal talk around

360
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:21,680
the house

361
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:23,279
all of these things primed themselves i

362
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:25,120
think so that made sense that comics

363
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:27,279
called me it was very genre

364
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:29,200
laid and also very much

365
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,519
you know like marvel's old what if

366
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:32,639
comic

367
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:35,440
that's kind of the whole fringe

368
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:37,680
field like there's not many of us that

369
00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:39,680
think this is the answer this is exactly

370
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:41,199
what it is we know exactly what's going

371
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:42,079
on

372
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,079
most of this is like deep dive thought

373
00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:46,399
experiments well what if like ancient

374
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:48,880
aliens was so great when it started

375
00:13:52,629 --> 00:13:51,120
because it began with with vandaken's

376
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:52,639
what if questions

377
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:54,959
right like he wasn't like aliens built a

378
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:56,480
pyramid these are landing strips for

379
00:14:01,829 --> 00:14:00,480
spaceships he was saying what if right

380
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:01,839
and they kind of lost their track on

381
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:03,920
there now i meet people who bring up

382
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:05,199
ancient aliens and they talk about it

383
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,880
like it's history or a fact and and

384
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:08,880
that's scary right

385
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:10,480
so i think that what yeah i think what

386
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:12,720
if question is what drives a lot of us

387
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,480
um and not like in a frivolous way but

388
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,399
it's like a what if because there are

389
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:18,480
these things that you can't explain

390
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:19,839
so what if it's this or what if it's

391
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:21,680
that um so i think all those things were

392
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:23,760
primers for me to become a comic artist

393
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:26,000
and then to just be really entrenched in

394
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:29,519
this ufo fringe paranormal world

395
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:32,079
wow that's cool man there's there's so

396
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:34,240
much that led up to what you're doing

397
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:36,160
today and kind of you know the bulk of

398
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,760
what we'll be talking about today your

399
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:39,920
interest in ufos and how you've now

400
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,639
brought that to life but um i gotta ask

401
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:44,639
you about a few of your projects before

402
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:47,360
we get there again my listeners they're

403
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:50,079
here for ufos but we'll get there guys i

404
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:52,720
promise but i am here to talk to michael

405
00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:56,000
the comic book artist first and i saw

406
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:59,040
that you worked on highlander

407
00:15:01,110 --> 00:15:00,240
i

408
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:01,120
was

409
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:03,519
the biggest closeted highlander of the

410
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:05,920
series fans dude like i would get the

411
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:08,720
catalog i'd order the swords

412
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:12,000
you know all the merch and i would write

413
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:15,440
you know little fanfics about duncan and

414
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:17,360
and living throughout the centuries blah

415
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:19,279
blah blah so i gotta ask what was it

416
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:22,160
like working on highlander of all things

417
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:24,160
which i believe might be getting a

418
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:26,720
resurgence soon i could be wrong but

419
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:28,079
yeah what was it like working with the

420
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:30,959
uh the immortals i'm a huge highlander

421
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:33,680
fan i love the first film frustrated by

422
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:36,320
all the other films tv show was great

423
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:38,800
um or at least you know had his moments

424
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:41,040
um

425
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:43,759
uh and working on the comic was it was

426
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,120
interesting like it really just came

427
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:47,600
down to the covers for the most part

428
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:49,519
um

429
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:52,000
it's a little insidery baseball but like

430
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:53,920
the people who who own the the

431
00:15:58,629 --> 00:15:56,480
copyrights who own the property aren't

432
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:58,639
the same people who literally created it

433
00:16:01,829 --> 00:16:00,320
so i think that's why you get a lot of

434
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:01,839
the sort of mixed

435
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:04,079
messaging stuff like like they say that

436
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:05,600
the television show is the same

437
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:08,560
continuity as the first film

438
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:09,440
i

439
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:11,120
don't understand how that works

440
00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:13,040
right but insist on it you know so it

441
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:15,759
made writing tricky and hard um

442
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:17,920
and in the end i didn't uh

443
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:18,959
you know but i got to do a bunch of

444
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:20,320
covers and just living in that world is

445
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:23,040
great i got to draw both duncan and

446
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:24,399
um christopher lambert's character i'm

447
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:25,600
forgetting

448
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:27,600
uh yeah and i still love highlanders to

449
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:30,240
this day it's it's bizarre it's strange

450
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:32,959
it's completely unique you know like

451
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:34,800
that's the stuff anybody you want to get

452
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,880
into highlander i have to like there's

453
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:38,560
nothing else like it because there's

454
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:40,000
just isn't

455
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:41,839
and yeah

456
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:42,880
yeah

457
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:46,800
where do you find like a sci-fi fantasy

458
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:49,759
kind of time travel

459
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,199
i can't really think of anything to be

460
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:54,000
honest unless you're yeah yeah

461
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,240
because they were smart enough to to not

462
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:58,399
try and explain everything that's where

463
00:17:01,189 --> 00:17:00,240
it all falls apart right and the same

464
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:01,199
thing with most of the things that we

465
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,880
love whether it's the matrix or star

466
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,640
wars as soon as you start to get into

467
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:06,559
midichlorians you have kfc guy

468
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,559
explaining to you everything it takes

469
00:17:12,309 --> 00:17:11,039
away that that magic whereas like in

470
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:12,319
highlighter they would say it in the

471
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:14,319
freaking song it's a kind of magic and

472
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:16,559
that's kind of all you needed

473
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:17,520
you know

474
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:20,240
just accept it yeah doth protest too

475
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:22,799
much if uh shakespeare has taught us

476
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,439
anything well okay so i love that

477
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:28,079
insider kind of stuff of you know the

478
00:17:32,710 --> 00:17:30,240
different companies the different uh

479
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:32,720
properties and whatnot what is it like

480
00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:36,320
as an artist or a writer hopping from

481
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:38,320
company to com company like whether it's

482
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:41,600
marvel or dc idw every all of them

483
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:43,600
there's so many out there and i would

484
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,200
imagine you know

485
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:47,120
working at marvel is a little different

486
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,679
than working at like image comics like

487
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:51,679
in terms of like what liberties you have

488
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,160
and stuff like that so what is it kind

489
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:56,960
of like a a bipolar thing jumping from

490
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:59,360
company to how does that work like i i

491
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:00,880
guess that's kind of my question does

492
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:03,440
marvel hire you to work on a property

493
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:05,600
and that's it like you're just there for

494
00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:08,240
that property or yeah maybe give

495
00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:10,000
demystify a little of that for me if you

496
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:11,360
don't mind michael

497
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:12,880
all the companies are

498
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,000
fairly wildly different you know marvel

499
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:18,480
and dc are our huge

500
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:20,960
company owned by company i mean mega

501
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:24,000
corporations you know disney owns marvel

502
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:25,440
uh warner brothers

503
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:27,520
warner brothers owns dc

504
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:29,120
um

505
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:31,360
and they're great because they have all

506
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,880
the classic characters superman

507
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:34,640
spider-man captain america and all that

508
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:35,520
stuff

509
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:36,400
um

510
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,919
and as a

511
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,160
as a freelance artist i like working for

512
00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:42,240
them because there's a guaranteed page

513
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:44,640
rate up front a page rate means how much

514
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:47,280
you're paid per page that you draw

515
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:48,799
versus

516
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:52,240
um creator owned work is largely a

517
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:54,880
royalty based payment meaning if it does

518
00:18:58,710 --> 00:18:56,480
well you'll get paid

519
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:58,720
you know if it does well you'll make

520
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:01,120
money and that could be anywhere from

521
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:02,640
covering the cost of making it in the

522
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:05,520
first place to to a profit you know but

523
00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:08,000
you don't know it's such a it's such a a

524
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:09,760
roll of the dice even the best work that

525
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:11,600
i've done that's like create our own

526
00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:12,559
work

527
00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:14,240
might not be seen

528
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:16,000
versus something that's kind of mediocre

529
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:17,520
or work for hire stuff gets seen by a

530
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:20,000
lot of people and vice versa there's no

531
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:21,440
there's no guarantees to any of it

532
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:24,000
there's no real

533
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,840
um a path to take um and as far as

534
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:29,520
you know and i actually enjoy working

535
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:31,039
for all them i love work for hire stuff

536
00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:32,559
i love doing like we're doing a world of

537
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:35,120
krypton is my next uh work for hire

538
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:36,960
thing so it's the story of what happens

539
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:38,799
to krypton in superman's world before it

540
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:42,000
blows up oh wow cool um

541
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:43,840
uh and you know there are times

542
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:46,160
i kind of look at like like film this is

543
00:20:19,110 --> 00:19:47,200
a

544
00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:19,120
sure

545
00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:21,039
but i i don't do one project at the time

546
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:22,720
i'm always working on several projects

547
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:23,840
at once

548
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,360
some of them like the one we just

549
00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:27,840
announced this week uh galaxy of madness

550
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:29,360
which is a patreon comic so you don't

551
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:31,440
need to go to a comic book store you go

552
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:33,200
to patreon look up galaxy of madness and

553
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:34,880
you'll go find it

554
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:36,640
um

555
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:38,720
but i forget the point was

556
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:40,720
oh no

557
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:42,880
multitasking yeah i had started working

558
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:44,880
on that um

559
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:46,400
with our partners

560
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:49,120
like almost a year ago maybe more and i

561
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,799
just work on stuff and let it build

562
00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:52,480
until i can release it so sometimes it

563
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:54,320
seems like i'm doing six things at once

564
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:55,840
but it's just because i've got a backlog

565
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:57,039
of work that i'm

566
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:59,280
i'm creating because i'm crazy by doing

567
00:21:02,789 --> 00:21:00,880
the work before knowing that i'm getting

568
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:02,799
paid or not you know

569
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:04,240
it's like constantly for you you're like

570
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:06,320
constantly writing spec scripts

571
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:08,720
oh my god yeah no i don't well and

572
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:11,280
that's such a good point and kind of you

573
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:12,159
know

574
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:15,039
shows the the industries overall of it's

575
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:17,120
a lot of hurry up and waiting you know

576
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:19,120
you'll create the thing and then it

577
00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:21,200
could sit there for 10 years you know i

578
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:24,320
i've sold i've sold options and in

579
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:27,360
screenplays to companies um years and

580
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:28,640
years ago but it doesn't mean they're

581
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:30,640
going to make the movie they just own

582
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:32,720
own the rights to make it which is nice

583
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:35,280
like yeah as a business person it's

584
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:37,919
great like i made my money cool but of

585
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:39,919
course as the

586
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:41,840
they're great but of course we want to

587
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:44,960
see these things come to fruition but um

588
00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:46,960
i would say in these businesses more

589
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:49,280
than not they don't so when you finally

590
00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:51,840
do get something made it's all that more

591
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:54,159
special and i i think you're right sort

592
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:57,360
of that street cred you know you you do

593
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,760
signal boost from these big companies to

594
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,679
then show people your other work that's

595
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:03,760
how i found your work and many other

596
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:05,600
comic book writers as well your wife

597
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:07,919
included and um

598
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:10,640
i think that's really cool like how

599
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:13,520
how you've navigated all of this

600
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:15,840
and now you're working on a project that

601
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:17,919
you're really passionate about when it

602
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:20,240
comes to ufos um

603
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:22,559
but we're almost there i promise we're

604
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:25,679
gonna get to blue book um my last kind

605
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:28,000
of comic bookie industry question for

606
00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:30,000
you mike um

607
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:32,640
powers and uh bulletproof monk these

608
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:35,600
were two of your your creations that um

609
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:38,000
and things you worked on that

610
00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:40,320
came to life in different mediums and

611
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:43,039
i'd love to hear um i just had one of my

612
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:45,919
my first play adapted into a feature

613
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:48,559
film and it was i can tell you a

614
00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:51,280
it was an interesting experience and uh

615
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:52,400
finally

616
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:55,360
it's gonna see the light of day um but

617
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:57,520
that's a story for another time oh thank

618
00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:00,240
you thank you but how was that for you

619
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:02,000
you know when they came to you with

620
00:23:06,830 --> 00:23:04,799
these ideas and um

621
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:06,840
adaptations i know they're very

622
00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:09,200
challenging uh yeah so yeah how did

623
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:10,960
those two projects come to be in terms

624
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:13,039
of the tv show in the movie

625
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:15,120
um bulletproof was interested as far as

626
00:23:19,510 --> 00:23:17,440
like me and this other writer of brett

627
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:19,520
lewis we helped create a product that

628
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:21,200
was already kind of brought to us like

629
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:22,640
they had this idea

630
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:24,000
of um

631
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:25,840
that the title bulletproof monk which

632
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:27,520
was like awesome like it was just yeah

633
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:29,440
sometimes a title can sell itself and

634
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,240
they

635
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:32,400
it sounds so backwards but sometimes how

636
00:23:35,909 --> 00:23:34,080
inspiration works they had the title

637
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:35,919
first and then they talk to bread about

638
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:38,159
like what what can this mean you know

639
00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:39,840
and i think they they had a vaguely

640
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:42,159
martial arty idea behind it

641
00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:43,200
um

642
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:44,320
and then

643
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,720
largely brett uh built it out through

644
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:48,960
there um and together we figured out the

645
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:50,240
world and we drew the three issues of

646
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:52,400
the comic it was then optioned by john

647
00:23:54,070 --> 00:23:53,200
woo

648
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:54,080
um

649
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:56,480
or not by john who was optioned by a

650
00:24:00,549 --> 00:23:58,400
company or whatever and the jungle was

651
00:24:02,549 --> 00:24:00,559
the the director on it

652
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,559
and then the story that bulletproof monk

653
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,400
became on screen really had nothing to

654
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:06,640
do with the the with the comic or very

655
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:08,240
little to do with the comic it was it

656
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:10,400
was largely reimagined which happens uh

657
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:12,000
quite a bit there's still some of the

658
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:14,000
same set pieces but but really it was

659
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:16,000
just a very different thing

660
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:18,000
um but it was still just really cool to

661
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:20,799
see happen um and it was exciting

662
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:21,840
um

663
00:24:25,269 --> 00:24:23,760
then many men many years later powers

664
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:25,279
which is a comic that me and brian

665
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:28,000
bendis had created back in like 2000 and

666
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:29,279
we've been doing that consistently for

667
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:31,440
about 15 to 20 well 20 years we just

668
00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:33,279
wrapped it up with this big graphic

669
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:34,400
novel

670
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:37,360
um and yeah we got options through sony

671
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:39,039
and they were developing television

672
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:41,440
shows to their playstation platform

673
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:43,840
so we were the first of this this these

674
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:46,880
early streaming experiments we got two

675
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:49,279
seasons out of it we were very much

676
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:50,400
involved

677
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:52,640
brian was one of the head writers but

678
00:24:56,710 --> 00:24:54,400
there's still like a lot of stuff that's

679
00:24:58,870 --> 00:24:56,720
either out of your control or

680
00:25:00,950 --> 00:24:58,880
um there's a good will between you and

681
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:00,960
the studios and and the writers that

682
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:04,080
like as you know like a a a play

683
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:06,960
is not a movie like there there's a lot

684
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:09,360
of of crossover that then diagrams

685
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:11,120
almost a circle but it's not there are

686
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:13,440
slight differences and the same way with

687
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:14,880
um going from the comic book to the

688
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:16,480
television show so you have faith in

689
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:17,200
your

690
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:21,600
let it be the thing that it needs to be

691
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:23,440
on its own it doesn't need to be like

692
00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:25,200
sin city which was a great experiment

693
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:26,960
where it's just literally the comic to a

694
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:29,520
film right you know we wanted to grow to

695
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,880
be its own

696
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:32,480
and then sometimes the wheels will fall

697
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:35,279
off and they kind of try to you know get

698
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,559
back on top of that i think by the

699
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:38,799
second season we we realized how much

700
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:41,200
freedom how loose we were with

701
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:43,039
our creation and then tightened it back

702
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:43,840
up

703
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:45,760
um the whole thing was a wild ride

704
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:47,039
because

705
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:49,600
you know it was life-changing it was

706
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:52,000
this this extra level of career thing

707
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:54,000
it was um

708
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:55,520
but it was also experimental with the

709
00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:58,320
early streaming and it was on a specific

710
00:26:01,590 --> 00:26:00,240
physical platform that being playstation

711
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,600
and stuff so like

712
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:03,600
um yeah we got two seasons and it was

713
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:05,360
awesome but

714
00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:06,640
it's just

715
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:10,159
all of your expectations change and

716
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:12,240
stuff right and i've had a lot of ass

717
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,679
kicking in hollywood stuff where i've

718
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:15,840
gotten things optioned or we had

719
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:17,360
negotiations for options that would go

720
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,960
on for over a year and then it just

721
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:20,480
doesn't

722
00:26:23,269 --> 00:26:21,760
come to fruition and then you realize

723
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:23,279
well i spent a year

724
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:25,039
where three days a week you're on a

725
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:26,240
phone with somebody talking about

726
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:27,760
something that that doesn't turn into

727
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:28,880
anything

728
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:29,919
um

729
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:31,360
which is great because then when other

730
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:33,679
things come around so at this point

731
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:35,279
i'm i'm also optioning something that's

732
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:36,799
fairly old

733
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:39,039
and we're in the middle of it right now

734
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:40,320
um

735
00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:41,679
but i'm not thinking about it every day

736
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:42,880
i'm not sitting here going like oh my

737
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,320
god this is going to be another tv show

738
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:46,080
and who are they going to cast i wonder

739
00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:47,679
what this is going to be like

740
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,440
because i've been on the roller coaster

741
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:51,360
up and down so many times like it's just

742
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:53,840
like every little thing that happens

743
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:55,760
like we just got a show runner or

744
00:27:00,149 --> 00:26:58,159
director attached to it and it's like

745
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:00,159
right i'll celebrate that

746
00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:02,799
but i'm not thinking about like

747
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:03,520
you know

748
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:05,600
is it gonna air what station who's going

749
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:07,200
to star in it like you just take every

750
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:08,320
little step

751
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:09,919
at a time so yeah

752
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:12,799
the the upside to bad stuff is it helps

753
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:14,720
center you out in different ways you

754
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:15,679
know

755
00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:18,000
yeah there's absolutely something

756
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:20,320
exactly it's so it's always a learning

757
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:23,039
process i know for me it's like until

758
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:26,159
that contract is signed or you know

759
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:28,559
they're saying action like yeah i'll

760
00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:30,960
believe it when i see it so i totally

761
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:32,840
get it man

762
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:35,760
um yeah for sure i know we'll have to do

763
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:38,480
a whole other interview on that um

764
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:39,200
well

765
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:41,200
let's fast forward to

766
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:43,679
today and one of the new projects you're

767
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:45,919
working on we'll get to the other one in

768
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:48,480
later in the conversation but is blue

769
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:50,000
book no

770
00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:52,240
of course all of my listeners are very

771
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:55,360
familiar with project blue book and we

772
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:57,520
just had the television show

773
00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:00,559
um not too not too long ago and i

774
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:01,760
actually have a question from the

775
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:04,640
creator of the tv show uh uh exclusive

776
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:07,679
question for you um that he sent in um

777
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:08,559
but

778
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:10,559
we'll get there how did this come to be

779
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:12,960
i i gotta ask how did project uh excuse

780
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:16,480
me how did blue book come to and um yeah

781
00:28:20,230 --> 00:28:18,000
what made you guys decide you wanted to

782
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:20,240
do this your your co-creative partner

783
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:21,840
and uh yeah tell us a little about the

784
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:23,520
team behind blue book if you don't mind

785
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:25,200
okay um

786
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:28,720
so james tinian uh is a huge writer

787
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:30,960
within comics he's been writing batman

788
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:32,559
for several years

789
00:28:36,389 --> 00:28:34,720
he has a comic that i

790
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:36,399
guarantee

791
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:38,159
most of your viewers will want to get

792
00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:39,840
their hands on called the department of

793
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:40,880
truth

794
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:43,039
um the concept behind it is it really is

795
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:44,480
he figured out how to do a modern day

796
00:28:48,389 --> 00:28:46,320
x-files without doing any of the x-files

797
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:48,399
imitation stuff or anything

798
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:49,440
um

799
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:51,200
which is that basically and and you know

800
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:52,559
we talk about this within our community

801
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:54,880
that that belief enough belief can kind

802
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:56,720
of create its own reality or create a

803
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:59,520
reality almost a tulpa like thing so in

804
00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:00,720
his book

805
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:02,080
if enough people start believing in

806
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:03,520
something whether it's a conspiracy like

807
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:06,399
jfk or bigfoot or ufos

808
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:09,200
in those areas where these people are

809
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:10,480
gathering and talking about these things

810
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,640
these phenomena actually start to happen

811
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,320
so there's literally a department in the

812
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:16,320
government who decides what to stop and

813
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:18,399
what to let go on it's called the

814
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:19,840
department of truth

815
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:20,880
um

816
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:24,000
and it's a great comic it covers bigfoot

817
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,279
ufo

818
00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:27,120
stuff all this and it's just amazing and

819
00:29:30,789 --> 00:29:29,200
just one day either i asked him if i

820
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:30,799
could do a cover for him or he asked if

821
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:32,080
i would do cover

822
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:33,919
and and i think just through being on

823
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:36,399
twitter and stuff like he he saw or knew

824
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:38,240
my interest in ufos and weird and

825
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:39,600
weirdness

826
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:40,720
and then

827
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:43,520
there's this large um

828
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:46,000
company called sub stack which is like a

829
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:48,480
newsletter platform kind of thing a lot

830
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:50,159
of journalists are on it and stuff and

831
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:51,840
they basically decided that they wanted

832
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:53,200
to do

833
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:55,279
comics um

834
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:56,320
through their platform and they have

835
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:58,240
these grants so they approached james

836
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:59,360
about it

837
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,960
um

838
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:02,480
and this was an opportunity to do a

839
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:04,240
comic that you couldn't typically do in

840
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:06,000
a comic store

841
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:10,159
so like project blue book is such um

842
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:11,679
the way we wanted to do it anyway which

843
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:13,679
is to tell a very straightforward as

844
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:16,640
real as possible without adding any

845
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:18,080
um

846
00:30:21,350 --> 00:30:20,240
any speculation or any extra facts or

847
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:21,360
anything like that just tell it as

848
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:22,480
straightforward as possible that would

849
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,080
be too hard of a cell in in mainstream

850
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:26,399
comics but on a platform like this it

851
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:28,320
would totally work and it would totally

852
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,919
work in the way that

853
00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:31,679
we both thought of in our head

854
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:33,360
immediately which is kind of black and

855
00:30:39,269 --> 00:30:37,840
white with this singular blue tone um

856
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,279
and that's how it started it was just

857
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:41,600
these weird opportunities that you know

858
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:42,799
james

859
00:30:47,029 --> 00:30:45,120
being offered a grant that could pay for

860
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:47,039
this kind of thing up front so that like

861
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:49,360
we know we'll make a living doing it

862
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:51,760
versus everything else was a giant

863
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:53,200
like gamble

864
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:55,760
um and we both like james has the same

865
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:57,440
interest as i do in this stuff and like

866
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:58,960
immediately

867
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:00,320
within the first couple seconds we had

868
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:02,480
the whole idea laid out like i had been

869
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:04,799
wanting to do like sort of journalistic

870
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:08,159
comics of ufo reports for a long time

871
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:09,120
um

872
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:10,320
and i just didn't know how to make it

873
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:11,519
happen and stuff and i kind of talked to

874
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:13,120
jimmy a little bit about it

875
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:14,080
um

876
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:14,960
the

877
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:15,919
you know

878
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:17,360
there's some other people some known

879
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:18,480
people i was trying to talk to about it

880
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:19,840
but it's hard

881
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:21,200
um

882
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:23,279
and anyway it just it just created these

883
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:25,679
circumstances where this could happen so

884
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:27,679
what we want to do is not all these

885
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:29,519
stories are our blue books specifically

886
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:31,039
but we're using blue book as like a

887
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:33,360
theme and starting from there is like

888
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:35,039
it's it's sort of our lighthouse you

889
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:36,960
know so that'll be non-blue book cases

890
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:39,440
that are there but obviously this is the

891
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:40,799
the atmosphere in which we're we're

892
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:42,880
telling it and we chose barney and betty

893
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:44,640
hill to do first

894
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,399
because it's one of the best stories

895
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:48,480
it's your first modern day abduction

896
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:49,600
stuff it's where we get a lot of our

897
00:31:53,269 --> 00:31:51,039
language from

898
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:53,279
um about this subject

899
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:54,720
and uh yeah we're gonna tell the whole

900
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:56,640
thing in about 80 pages

901
00:32:01,029 --> 00:31:59,039
it's uh 20 pages every month

902
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:01,039
and um

903
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:02,480
yeah i think that's i think that's the

904
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:04,159
basics of it yeah so we're going to just

905
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:06,080
try and pick the facts and just tell the

906
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:07,679
story straight forward in a compelling

907
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:08,559
way

908
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:10,880
yeah and again that's what kind of sold

909
00:32:14,789 --> 00:32:12,960
me when i first heard about it was the

910
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,799
accuracy in which you guys want to

911
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:16,799
portray this because that's what we

912
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:19,039
you know we hope and pray for in this

913
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:22,080
field is accuracy and credibility and

914
00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:24,720
legitimacy and you know a lot of the the

915
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:27,120
i want to say hate but the criticism of

916
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:29,440
the history channel television show was

917
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:31,279
how off the rails it went in terms of

918
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:32,960
accuracy and everything and that's a

919
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:34,720
whole other beast like yeah i've been

920
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:36,880
there with david o'leary the creator

921
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:39,360
i've had him on a few times and

922
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:41,279
when you're dealing with something like

923
00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:42,640
a huge

924
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:44,880
company at the helm like it's gonna

925
00:32:47,909 --> 00:32:46,240
happen and you know

926
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:47,919
if i was i would have approached it the

927
00:32:51,190 --> 00:32:50,000
same way it's television

928
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:51,200
you know because otherwise it's a

929
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:52,799
documentary

930
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:54,559
exactly that's what i tried to stress

931
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:55,679
and there's nothing wrong with that

932
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:57,039
that's great too but it's a different

933
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:59,120
path it's kind of like in comics you

934
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:00,960
know whenever we we announce something

935
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:03,360
that's digital people immediately like

936
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:05,039
well when is it coming to print

937
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:07,279
it's like well one thing at a time you

938
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:09,039
know like there are different things you

939
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:10,880
know and and a documentary is different

940
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:12,480
than um

941
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:13,679
you know like i don't know how

942
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:15,600
interesting blue book could be

943
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:18,159
straightforward um right it could be

944
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:19,120
done

945
00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:20,240
um

946
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:22,320
i'm not sure narratively how you really

947
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:24,000
carry that out but that's a whole other

948
00:33:27,509 --> 00:33:25,760
thing yeah well and then you know

949
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:27,519
there's always an entertainment aspect

950
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:29,279
to all of this like that's yeah it's how

951
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:31,840
you engage an audience to then

952
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,519
educate them on something yeah and i

953
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:35,919
think you guys did uh i've read the

954
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:38,240
first two chapters that uh you sent to

955
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:40,640
me you were so nice enough to uh send

956
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:43,279
and um you you can see a little bit of

957
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:45,039
your art in the background here on the

958
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:47,840
youtube version of our show but um

959
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:49,600
that's not doing any justice it's

960
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,960
beautiful man like this this sort of um

961
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:54,720
you know

962
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,320
limited colors and um just the style it

963
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:00,480
reminded me somewhat of your work with

964
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:03,840
dick tracy in some respects as well um

965
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:05,440
but tell me a little about how you

966
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:06,720
decided to go

967
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:09,520
with this style which i think is spot on

968
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:11,679
for something like project blue book

969
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:13,520
what made you want to go with with what

970
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:15,359
you did and maybe yeah tell us a little

971
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:17,520
about the style if you don't mind

972
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:19,119
um

973
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:20,560
so as you can tell i'm wearing coke

974
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:22,560
bottles on my face right now these giant

975
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:24,879
glasses where my eyes look huge

976
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:27,520
uh because as i've gotten older like you

977
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:28,560
know uh

978
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:30,240
sitting over the desk like that has

979
00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:32,560
taken its toll on me you know for sure

980
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:34,000
so most of the work that i've done in

981
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:36,560
the past i know four years has mostly

982
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,800
been digital which means i'm working on

983
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:40,480
a computer screen where i can get in

984
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:43,679
there and i can control the lines 120

985
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:44,960
100

986
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:47,359
and um the the line work is much finer

987
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:48,560
and stuff

988
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:50,480
um but i miss drawing what's called

989
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:52,159
analog and that's just pen paper and

990
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:54,639
brush you know and you get chunkier

991
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:57,119
lines out of it your that the

992
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:59,040
it's just a slightly different quality

993
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:00,800
the closest i could explain it is like

994
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:02,640
if you're an audio person you can tell

995
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:04,079
the difference between something that's

996
00:35:07,190 --> 00:35:05,599
digital and something that's on an album

997
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:07,200
or something you know

998
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:08,480
um

999
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:10,000
so i was really really hungry to do

1000
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:12,160
something analog again

1001
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:13,599
and this was a perfect opportunity

1002
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:15,280
because you know it wouldn't involve too

1003
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,119
many crowd scenes which a lot of people

1004
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:19,599
a lot of detail or like fight scenes of

1005
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,880
people

1006
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:22,480
jumping off of exploding buildings and

1007
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:23,920
ridiculousness that we get to do in

1008
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:26,079
comics usually takes a lot of detail on

1009
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:27,440
intense lines

1010
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:29,520
um but you should tell here

1011
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:31,040
the kind of stories we're going to be

1012
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:32,160
telling they're they're largely

1013
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:33,680
character based

1014
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:35,440
people talking people driving people

1015
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:37,520
eating people pointing at the sky and

1016
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:38,880
stuff

1017
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,599
right

1018
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:41,520
so it becomes pure storytelling you know

1019
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:43,440
and i almost look at it like i try to

1020
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:44,960
tell each page

1021
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:47,359
can you kind of tell what's going on or

1022
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:48,560
come to your own conclusions about

1023
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:51,280
what's going on without the dialogue

1024
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:54,160
um which in these stories where you're

1025
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,480
you've got the first chapter is it's

1026
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:58,800
largely betty and barney just driving

1027
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,720
and pulling over

1028
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:02,400
you know and looking at this crazy thing

1029
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:03,839
so i had to come up with the language

1030
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:06,640
like well how do i make this interesting

1031
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:08,480
um because we don't want to add stuff we

1032
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:10,720
didn't turn want to turn the the the car

1033
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:12,960
chase scene from the ufo into a chase

1034
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:14,880
scene you know where

1035
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:16,480
tires are squealing around corners and

1036
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:17,680
stuff like that

1037
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:20,320
but i still was was figuring out how do

1038
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:22,240
i tell that in an interesting way so

1039
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:24,400
there's a lot of angular shots

1040
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:27,040
looking through um branches at their

1041
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:28,800
cars they're driving there's a lot of

1042
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:30,960
reflections of the ufo on the car but

1043
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:33,520
not seeing the car itself like so what

1044
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:35,599
visual language could i use to show that

1045
00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:37,040
they're being stalked kind of that was

1046
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:38,800
the feeling that that that barney

1047
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:41,280
specifically had um that they were being

1048
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:43,040
stalked and hunted

1049
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,560
um

1050
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:46,960
so those are the choices i'm making as

1051
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:49,599
well as realizing that the platform

1052
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:52,320
is largely for non-comic book readers

1053
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:54,400
like i'd be very happy for all of my my

1054
00:36:58,310 --> 00:36:56,320
my readers to follow blue book and

1055
00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:58,320
james's readers to find follow blue book

1056
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:01,200
but we want is your audience to read it

1057
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:02,480
you know we want jimmy's audience we

1058
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:04,880
want the ufo community to read it so

1059
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:07,040
i'm specifically and james and our

1060
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:08,960
editor greg in our letter

1061
00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:12,560
um we're all um idea we're all

1062
00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:14,640
uh trying to tell this in a way for

1063
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:16,720
people who don't read comics so there's

1064
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,320
not a lot of crazy panel layouts i'm

1065
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:20,160
keeping it super simple so nobody gets

1066
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:21,040
lost

1067
00:37:24,870 --> 00:37:23,280
um and

1068
00:37:26,069 --> 00:37:24,880
the those are the compasses that were

1069
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:26,079
that we're taking and the style just

1070
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:27,599
comes from again getting to go back to

1071
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:30,079
my my roots of like just plopping down

1072
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:32,480
thick chunky brush lines for noir scenes

1073
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:34,720
like using the idea of

1074
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:36,880
of noir and horror lighting

1075
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,280
to emphasize the the scariness and the

1076
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:40,800
emotional heights that these characters

1077
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:43,520
are going through um

1078
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:45,040
and then that's that's accomplishment

1079
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:46,400
like really the whole thing is just

1080
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:47,760
stripped down to its

1081
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,640
most basic bare essential stuff um and

1082
00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:52,320
that's making it for a better creative

1083
00:37:56,150 --> 00:37:54,160
experience and and i think for probably

1084
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:56,160
for a better reading experience too

1085
00:38:01,510 --> 00:37:59,280
yeah sometimes better listen more

1086
00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:01,520
less is more always man if there's

1087
00:38:07,270 --> 00:38:03,920
anything i've learned in writing as well

1088
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:07,280
especially for for movies it's uh what

1089
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:09,119
is the saying it's it's showing not

1090
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:11,760
telling which as a playwright my job was

1091
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:13,520
always the opposite it's telling and not

1092
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:16,880
showing so it was it's hard and and like

1093
00:38:21,430 --> 00:38:18,880
you said like this isn't you know

1094
00:38:23,670 --> 00:38:21,440
hopefully a lot of the followers of your

1095
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:23,680
work will come over to blue book but

1096
00:38:31,270 --> 00:38:28,240
it's it's made you know as an homage to

1097
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:31,280
the people who worked on blue book for a

1098
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:33,599
community who's been made fun of their

1099
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:35,440
whole lives for believing in this stuff

1100
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:38,880
and just now in 2021 is getting you know

1101
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:41,440
the legitimacy it finally deserves but

1102
00:38:47,190 --> 00:38:44,160
um i i think that's like

1103
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:47,200
that's in my mind as as i'm drawing them

1104
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:49,680
betty and barney hill were real people

1105
00:38:53,349 --> 00:38:51,440
you know and often when we even when we

1106
00:38:55,109 --> 00:38:53,359
talk about it on like podcasts and stuff

1107
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:55,119
you kind of i don't want to say forget

1108
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:56,800
but like yeah you do forget the real

1109
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:58,960
real people so like the things that they

1110
00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:01,280
were going through um who they were at

1111
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:03,280
the time how they were formed

1112
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:05,920
as a as as a woman and a black man in

1113
00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:07,520
the 60s that means they grew up in the

1114
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:08,720
40s

1115
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:10,000
you know

1116
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:12,160
so you take all of this stuff into into

1117
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:13,440
account and

1118
00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:15,440
when you when you once you read the the

1119
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:18,720
books about them and you know

1120
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:20,160
they're they had two different sort of

1121
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:21,680
directions for this

1122
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:25,440
betty well i don't think she was

1123
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:26,800
i don't believe she manufactured

1124
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:28,880
anything i don't believe she exaggerated

1125
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:31,040
anything but as this started to happen

1126
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:33,280
to her she was open to it she was open

1127
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:34,880
to the experience

1128
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:36,160
she was kind of excited about the

1129
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:40,400
experience i think her she had a a huge

1130
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:43,200
mountain level of curiosity

1131
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:44,240
barney

1132
00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:46,880
wanted it all to end immediately right

1133
00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:49,040
you know the book captured

1134
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:51,440
is called captured because when he saw

1135
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:53,760
the ship that he thought was coming near

1136
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:56,000
him he's running to his wife yelling

1137
00:39:59,829 --> 00:39:58,560
they're going to capture us

1138
00:40:01,990 --> 00:39:59,839
now

1139
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:02,000
to say those words

1140
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:03,920
like those those are specific words it's

1141
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:05,520
not run betty it's not we got to get out

1142
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:07,280
of here they're going to capture us

1143
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:09,680
there's a psychological underlining

1144
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:11,839
there that you as a writer i bet like

1145
00:40:15,030 --> 00:40:13,440
you would write it

1146
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:15,040
not every character would say that

1147
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:16,880
specific characters would say that for

1148
00:40:21,510 --> 00:40:19,200
specific reasons so like barney was

1149
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:21,520
tortured by this whole thing so there's

1150
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:23,520
a huge i feel a huge responsibility as

1151
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:25,200
i'm drawing this to

1152
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:26,880
um protect barney so that he doesn't

1153
00:40:31,589 --> 00:40:29,520
come off like um like he's trying to be

1154
00:40:33,510 --> 00:40:31,599
labeled and a lot of those um

1155
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:33,520
psychologists and people at the time

1156
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:36,000
tried to say basically that he was

1157
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:38,160
mentally inferior to betty and that

1158
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:40,720
benny was influencing him through his

1159
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:43,359
dreams or her dreams to believe the same

1160
00:40:47,829 --> 00:40:45,119
thing that she like it's so insulting

1161
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:47,839
and so demeaning and the way she was

1162
00:40:53,349 --> 00:40:50,319
also like the the questions that the

1163
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:53,359
therapists were asking of them were

1164
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,400
so insulting uh to anybody um it was

1165
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,480
brutal yeah it's a lot that they went

1166
00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:00,480
through so i'm carrying a lot of that

1167
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:02,560
when i'm drawing it um and it also helps

1168
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,200
that like betty just looks like my aunt

1169
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:07,280
somebody who helped raise me so like

1170
00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:09,359
when i'm dressing her when i don't have

1171
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:11,119
reference i'm thinking of the same kind

1172
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:12,720
of clothing so the same kind of she had

1173
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:14,319
the same that

1174
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:15,599
i hate to put this there was like this

1175
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:16,960
failed perm

1176
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:19,280
thing that that was going on for from

1177
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:22,480
like the 40s to like the early 80s and

1178
00:41:26,230 --> 00:41:24,720
my aunt had the same hair right so like

1179
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:26,240
it's it's this wonderful thing where

1180
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:27,680
like i'm connecting to them as people

1181
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:28,800
i'm connecting them through my own

1182
00:41:31,109 --> 00:41:30,319
experiences of families as i'm drawing

1183
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:31,119
them

1184
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:33,040
um i'm not sure where that was all going

1185
00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:36,160
but that's why

1186
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:37,920
right and i love hearing that man

1187
00:41:44,309 --> 00:41:40,640
because like my my i guess

1188
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:44,319
role in the ufo field is i focus on the

1189
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:46,880
people who have experiences not how big

1190
00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:49,839
was the craft like what time i like yeah

1191
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:52,640
that's cool data's great it's great for

1192
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:55,040
investigators it's great for these like

1193
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:57,280
military dudes who are trying to assess

1194
00:42:02,630 --> 00:41:59,680
what's going on but for me it's always

1195
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:02,640
come back to the betty's and the barneys

1196
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:04,880
like what did you experience

1197
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:05,920
how did

1198
00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:07,920
because it's different for everyone i i

1199
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:10,400
had a case that i personally went out to

1200
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:12,960
investigate in michigan where a um i had

1201
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:15,119
a mother and daughter they both saw a

1202
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:18,640
triangular ufo above their home and they

1203
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:20,720
had completely different experiences man

1204
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,160
the the mother

1205
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:24,720
said it was silent and it was black the

1206
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,960
daughter said it was unbearably loud she

1207
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:29,359
was like covering her ears and the craft

1208
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:31,760
was white so you're just like

1209
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:34,000
every person is going to experience

1210
00:42:38,069 --> 00:42:35,920
these things differently and i think

1211
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:38,079
that's it's so cool that you picked up

1212
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:40,720
on that with what what barney hill said

1213
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:42,640
we're going to be captured whereas she

1214
00:42:46,790 --> 00:42:45,119
was probably like ah let's do this like

1215
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:46,800
this is gonna be a crazy learning

1216
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:49,200
experience she was on the craft like

1217
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:51,599
asking the aliens questions stuff like

1218
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:54,079
that meanwhile like barney's

1219
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:56,560
effing terrified if you listen to those

1220
00:43:03,190 --> 00:42:59,200
regression tapes yes

1221
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:03,200
he's telling you he's looking at me

1222
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:05,359
what did he tell you

1223
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:07,200
stay there

1224
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:09,599
and keep looking

1225
00:43:16,069 --> 00:43:13,200
just keep looking and stay there

1226
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:16,079
and just keep looking

1227
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:18,079
just keep looking

1228
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:19,599
could you hear each other oh i gotta

1229
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:23,040
pull these binoculars away from my eyes

1230
00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:24,560
because if i don't i'll just keep

1231
00:43:28,710 --> 00:43:26,319
standing

1232
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:28,720
would you hear me tell you this oh no he

1233
00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:32,880
didn't see it you felt he said it i know

1234
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:35,680
you know he's up there yeah

1235
00:43:51,119 --> 00:44:05,430
is

1236
00:44:09,950 --> 00:44:07,589
calm

1237
00:44:11,349 --> 00:44:09,960
i'm down get away

1238
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:11,359
[Music]

1239
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:13,200
i can't even imagine what that would

1240
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:14,560
have done to their

1241
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:16,079
relationship with this mother and

1242
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:18,400
daughter in michigan man tear them apart

1243
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:20,640
so yeah yeah and yeah i can't even

1244
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:21,839
imagine

1245
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:24,240
in his like early 40s or early or

1246
00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:27,599
mid-40s something like that you know um

1247
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:29,040
and i'm convinced unfortunately like

1248
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:32,079
that story about my my mom when they saw

1249
00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:34,640
something um that emotional thing that

1250
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:36,960
my aunt reacted to i think that's what

1251
00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:39,200
hooked me into these things so i've

1252
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:41,119
never had an experience and my wife and

1253
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:42,560
i we've actively gone out we've been to

1254
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:44,319
joshua tree for contacting the desert

1255
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:46,319
the first year and we'll go stargazing

1256
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,839
hope we'll see something we've never

1257
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:49,200
seen anything

1258
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:51,119
but the people that i've talked to

1259
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:52,560
there are people in my life who i trust

1260
00:44:55,510 --> 00:44:54,560
i would trust with my life who have seen

1261
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:55,520
things

1262
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:57,920
that's why i'm still here like there as

1263
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:59,359
far as i'm concerned there's no smoking

1264
00:45:01,190 --> 00:45:00,319
gun

1265
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:01,200
right

1266
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,480
for me anyway

1267
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:04,400
but there are people's experiences who

1268
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:05,920
like why would they lie about this there

1269
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:07,280
are some people who lie or some people

1270
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:08,319
who are

1271
00:45:10,790 --> 00:45:09,920
um there's all sorts of reasons right

1272
00:45:12,309 --> 00:45:10,800
but

1273
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:12,319
we all know people in our lives who just

1274
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,319
wouldn't make something like that up

1275
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:16,319
so whatever it is

1276
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:17,839
people are experiencing something people

1277
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:20,160
i trust and that's why i'm still here is

1278
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:22,160
there is that that human aspect of it

1279
00:45:24,150 --> 00:45:23,440
because unfortunately like we're talking

1280
00:45:25,349 --> 00:45:24,160
about

1281
00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:25,359
that mother and daughter having

1282
00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:27,359
completely different experiences

1283
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:29,520
the older i get the more i think that

1284
00:45:32,950 --> 00:45:30,720
this is less

1285
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:32,960
a physical predictable thing and maybe

1286
00:45:37,270 --> 00:45:34,640
that's part of it but there seems to be

1287
00:45:38,470 --> 00:45:37,280
some sort of consciousness thing

1288
00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:38,480
i don't know you know i don't want to

1289
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,079
get i you know

1290
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:42,240
you just get into such speculation land

1291
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:43,200
there but

1292
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:44,960
there more and more it seems to be

1293
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:46,960
something along those lines as opposed

1294
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:47,760
to

1295
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:49,040
specifically

1296
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:51,040
zeta reticuli people coming in a nuts

1297
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,720
and bolts ship or something which may

1298
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:54,319
also be happening

1299
00:45:59,670 --> 00:45:56,720
i don't know right it might be one small

1300
00:46:01,829 --> 00:45:59,680
sliver of the overall picture i'm with

1301
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:01,839
you man like yeah we're kind of living

1302
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:04,240
in an age now of um

1303
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:05,599
you know

1304
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:08,240
i guess a new age as the kind of new age

1305
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:10,640
movement would say of this having a lot

1306
00:46:15,750 --> 00:46:12,720
more to do with consciousness it's a

1307
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:15,760
road that i've kind of tippy-toed on but

1308
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:17,119
i haven't like

1309
00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:18,160
gone

1310
00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:20,640
down the road yet but a good friend of

1311
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:22,319
mine um

1312
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:24,160
you know he has a a christian background

1313
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:25,920
and like so he's always seen the ufo

1314
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:28,319
community uh community the ufo phenomena

1315
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,480
as you know this larger spiritual thing

1316
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:32,160
you know and i always pushed against

1317
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:33,760
that and like i was like no these are

1318
00:46:37,990 --> 00:46:36,000
like aliens or something or whatever and

1319
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:38,000
well like i don't see eye to eye exactly

1320
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:39,680
on that point of view

1321
00:46:44,550 --> 00:46:42,400
the venn diagram's almost the same like

1322
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:44,560
i'm kind of thinking that these are more

1323
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,640
like ultra dimensional

1324
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:48,720
creatures or ultra dimensional

1325
00:46:53,589 --> 00:46:51,200
experiences rather than

1326
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:53,599
so much physical from another planet

1327
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:55,839
over or another star system and when you

1328
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:56,960
think about that like those are just

1329
00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:59,040
sort of metaphors like angels and demons

1330
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:00,079
versus

1331
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:02,720
you know uh yeah ultra

1332
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:05,359
you know uh dimensional beings who have

1333
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:06,880
different motivations

1334
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:08,720
you know um it's sort of just your point

1335
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:10,400
of view like i fought against that for

1336
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:12,960
the longest time and now i like well why

1337
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:14,480
is it when people have

1338
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,240
uh ufo experiences they start having

1339
00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:18,319
paranormal experiences afterwards you

1340
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:20,319
know part of the parts of betty barney

1341
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:21,520
hill stories that's not reported often

1342
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:24,640
is that poltergeist activity after

1343
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:27,599
the um their encounters and then people

1344
00:47:31,430 --> 00:47:28,880
helping them investigate their

1345
00:47:32,950 --> 00:47:31,440
encounters also started getting

1346
00:47:34,470 --> 00:47:32,960
those tag along

1347
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,480
uh um

1348
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:36,240
phenomenon that's been happening like

1349
00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:37,440
you get with like

1350
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:39,599
a skinwalker ranch is probably the most

1351
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:41,599
you know extreme example of that

1352
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:42,720
um

1353
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,720
but why is that happening you know you

1354
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:46,319
know those should be two different

1355
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:48,319
things apparently like

1356
00:47:53,349 --> 00:47:51,359
poltergeist activity and ufo activity

1357
00:47:56,230 --> 00:47:53,359
shouldn't have to follow each other but

1358
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:56,240
they seem to so right

1359
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:58,160
that's such a good point i think you

1360
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:58,880
know

1361
00:48:01,750 --> 00:48:00,559
um and we're we're hearing that more and

1362
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:01,760
more this mother and daughter had the

1363
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:03,760
same experience poltergeist activity

1364
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:06,160
after all the ufo event their

1365
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:08,160
electricity was on the fritz an

1366
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:10,000
electrician came out to fix it he sees

1367
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:12,160
the ufo over the house like dude it's

1368
00:48:17,829 --> 00:48:14,720
crazy like um i gotta get you i gotta

1369
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:17,839
get you that case for a yeah for a later

1370
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:19,760
later one for blue book but you're

1371
00:48:22,950 --> 00:48:21,119
you're right i think when you're dealing

1372
00:48:24,790 --> 00:48:22,960
with such amorphous

1373
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:24,800
phenomena like everyone's going to kind

1374
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:27,200
of bend it and mold it to their own

1375
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:29,680
whatever spiritual lens or

1376
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:32,000
psychological lens or what what have you

1377
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:33,520
and that's why when anyone ever comes to

1378
00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:35,200
me says do you believe in ufos i'm like

1379
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,160
it's

1380
00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:38,400
belief is immediately going down

1381
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:40,559
religion territory and that's not sure

1382
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:42,800
what this is about for me like i i want

1383
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:45,119
to hear the stories i'm compelled by the

1384
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:48,000
stories the way people interpret things

1385
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:50,559
um and then others just want the facts

1386
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:52,960
ma'am like i i totally get that but when

1387
00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:55,440
you bring belief into it that's that's

1388
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:57,440
tough because then you're dealing with

1389
00:49:01,270 --> 00:48:59,280
religion and so many people have come to

1390
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:01,280
me man and been like it's demonic it's

1391
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:02,720
angelic it's

1392
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,440
yeah

1393
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:05,599
dimensional like you mentioned so who

1394
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:07,599
knows who really knows but i think

1395
00:49:11,910 --> 00:49:09,599
that's what kind of keeps us going is

1396
00:49:14,230 --> 00:49:11,920
asking those marvel those marvel what

1397
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:14,240
ifs right yeah it's we keep asking what

1398
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,200
is because there's all these like

1399
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:17,680
touchstones to real actual things

1400
00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:19,280
you know the people we trust or

1401
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:20,880
documents we've seen or something and

1402
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:26,309
there's a reason to keep asking

1403
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:28,480
yeah thanks jacques valet he ruined

1404
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:30,400
everything seriously um

1405
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:33,200
yeah well let's uh let's i guess let's

1406
00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:35,440
um go back to blue book in terms of what

1407
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:36,640
you guys are covering you mentioned

1408
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:39,280
betty and barney hill 80 pages that's

1409
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:41,440
that is awesome first of all i can't

1410
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:43,920
wait to see where you know your whole

1411
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:50,549
what's up guys ryan dropping in to wish

1412
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:53,200
you all a very happy halloween season

1413
00:49:58,549 --> 00:49:55,280
and what better way to celebrate than

1414
00:50:01,430 --> 00:49:58,559
with jim harold's campfire podcast with

1415
00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:01,440
over 500 episodes of campfire you'll

1416
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:04,079
hear stories that will bend your reality

1417
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:06,640
and leave you truly spooked

1418
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:08,960
the concept is pretty simple

1419
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:11,920
jim talks to regular folks about strange

1420
00:50:17,750 --> 00:50:14,720
stuff that happens to them and yes that

1421
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:17,760
includes ufos and uaps along with

1422
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:21,040
cryptids and of course ghosts

1423
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:24,000
now not all the stories are horrifying

1424
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:26,640
some are pretty heartwarming like a

1425
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,280
visit from a past loved one or a

1426
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:31,760
peaceful near-death experience

1427
00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:34,960
regardless they are true and fascinating

1428
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:37,680
stories as told by ordinary people

1429
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:40,880
who've had extraordinary experiences

1430
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:43,839
so pull up a log and tune in to jim

1431
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:46,960
harold's campfire on apple podcasts

1432
00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:49,760
spotify or wherever you listen to

1433
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:52,640
somewhere in the skies and remember

1434
00:51:02,309 --> 00:50:59,910
david o'leary like i mentioned the

1435
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:02,319
creator of the project blue book series

1436
00:51:06,390 --> 00:51:04,720
he wanted to know because for him with

1437
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:06,400
the tv show it was a big challenge

1438
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:08,480
because you're dealing with like

1439
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:11,440
um you know a chronological program that

1440
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:14,240
actually existed that investigated ufos

1441
00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:16,480
but they had to tell a story they had to

1442
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:19,119
create an arc so sometimes

1443
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:21,280
they took a case from 1950 and one from

1444
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:24,000
1960 and they ran yeah in tandem you

1445
00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:26,160
know chronologically on the show um so

1446
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:27,520
he wants to know

1447
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:28,800
what um

1448
00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:31,760
how did you guys decide to start with

1449
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:34,000
betty of barney hill and um how are you

1450
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:35,680
gonna go about what you're gonna focus

1451
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:37,440
on moving forward i know it's still

1452
00:51:41,589 --> 00:51:39,359
really early in the creative process for

1453
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:41,599
you guys but um yeah he wants to know

1454
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:43,680
like what are you gonna what made you

1455
00:51:48,150 --> 00:51:46,160
want to focus on certain things

1456
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:48,160
uh well first i'd like to thank david

1457
00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:50,000
just for asking a question you know when

1458
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:51,920
the when the show first came out i even

1459
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:53,599
did a drawing of um forgetting the

1460
00:51:57,589 --> 00:51:55,920
actor's name who's playing heinek uh the

1461
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:57,599
picture of him holds my flashlight and

1462
00:52:01,990 --> 00:51:59,440
posted it out to this for the creators

1463
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:02,000
because i was just excited um

1464
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:05,440
oh i should mention i made this shirt

1465
00:52:08,549 --> 00:52:07,680
i love that

1466
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:08,559
the whole

1467
00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:13,760
my highest selling t-shirt in my shop um

1468
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:14,559
so

1469
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:24,559
quality of the show like it was just

1470
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:26,800
great to watch um and i think that the

1471
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:28,480
mixing and matching of history like that

1472
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:30,880
was a perfect way to do it because

1473
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:33,040
you know what while you know

1474
00:52:36,950 --> 00:52:34,880
some of us might get like oh that's not

1475
00:52:38,870 --> 00:52:36,960
the order we have to remember this is

1476
00:52:41,349 --> 00:52:38,880
more for people who aren't into this

1477
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:41,359
than it actually is for us who are right

1478
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:43,440
and it's and that becomes a doorway for

1479
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:45,520
people to go like what there was this

1480
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:47,359
like owl looking thing in the woods

1481
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,960
after this ufo crash and then they'll

1482
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:50,640
start looking into stuff and then you

1483
00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:52,000
know like richard dolan got into this

1484
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:53,359
because he was looking at historical

1485
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:55,440
documents and like military spending

1486
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:57,680
that's what got him into this so why not

1487
00:53:01,589 --> 00:53:00,400
a tv show um so anyway

1488
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:01,599
uh

1489
00:53:06,069 --> 00:53:03,440
betty and barney hill we decided first

1490
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:06,079
with that because it is the

1491
00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:08,000
you know sort of pinnacle of like where

1492
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:10,000
all of this started all of our language

1493
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:11,760
came from it our first experience is

1494
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:13,280
talking about

1495
00:53:16,870 --> 00:53:14,800
it it's not really change that that

1496
00:53:17,829 --> 00:53:16,880
narrative hasn't changed wildly since

1497
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:17,839
then

1498
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:19,359
um

1499
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:20,800
and then that was sort of the reasons

1500
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:22,559
and it was just bulletproof case you

1501
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:24,319
know why why would they

1502
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:26,640
make this up the the claims that they

1503
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:29,359
want to make up a story just don't make

1504
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:31,680
sense uh one from a safety point of view

1505
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:35,760
when you're in the 1960s early 1960s uh

1506
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:37,119
a mixed couple

1507
00:53:40,950 --> 00:53:38,240
um

1508
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:40,960
working with uh social workers and naacp

1509
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:42,720
you're just a target for bad [\h__\h] to

1510
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:44,559
happen you know you don't want to put

1511
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:46,319
yourself out there barney could have

1512
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:47,920
lost his job who wants to trust a

1513
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:50,880
mailman who sees aliens you know um

1514
00:53:54,630 --> 00:53:52,240
betty could have lost her work because

1515
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:54,640
of the same stuff so even talking about

1516
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:56,240
this and then what did they get out of

1517
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:57,839
it they got like a book deal and the

1518
00:54:01,750 --> 00:53:59,440
book deal like i i think i was reading

1519
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:01,760
about it in one of the books later like

1520
00:54:04,710 --> 00:54:03,280
yeah they made some money off it but it

1521
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:04,720
wasn't life-changing money they got like

1522
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:06,640
new furniture they made sure that the

1523
00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:07,760
writers

1524
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:09,280
uh who helped them write the book was

1525
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:12,160
also part of the the finances of the

1526
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:13,440
television show that got made later in

1527
00:54:17,829 --> 00:54:15,599
the film you know so like it wasn't like

1528
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:17,839
a cash cow for them in any way um

1529
00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:19,440
there's no reasons for them to make any

1530
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:21,440
of it up so these were the some of the

1531
00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:22,960
reasons why like this was the place to

1532
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:25,119
start kind of where the real history of

1533
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:27,839
it begins and this is just this great

1534
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:29,440
case um and there's a stuff like the

1535
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:31,200
star thing you know her figuring out

1536
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:33,760
that the constellation before map

1537
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:35,520
yeah um

1538
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:37,760
and then you know so so

1539
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:39,599
so that'll be our first big statement

1540
00:54:43,990 --> 00:54:41,520
about it the next story or two are going

1541
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:44,000
to be shorter uh and so you know that

1542
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:45,839
way we can cover some other stuff really

1543
00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:47,839
quickly before we go on to a third or

1544
00:54:52,230 --> 00:54:50,240
fourth story it'll also be really big

1545
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:52,240
this way you get this huge meal now okay

1546
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:53,520
these little meals later and then

1547
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:55,040
another big meal

1548
00:54:58,950 --> 00:54:57,040
um and we haven't decided specifically

1549
00:55:00,789 --> 00:54:58,960
which cases but you know there's giant

1550
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:00,799
ones we'll definitely do randall shim

1551
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:02,960
you know um we'll we'll definitely do

1552
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:05,040
like a travis walton uh maybe get to

1553
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:06,400
talk to him

1554
00:55:13,270 --> 00:55:08,480
um

1555
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:13,280
yeah so there's a lot to cover and they

1556
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:15,520
won't all be specifically blue book but

1557
00:55:21,190 --> 00:55:18,000
they'll be around this this subject

1558
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:21,200
i said man hey anytime anyone puts

1559
00:55:26,230 --> 00:55:23,680
rendelsham into anything i'm happy

1560
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:26,240
that's probably my my favorite case

1561
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,319
personally i've um i wrote a play about

1562
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:30,240
it actually i'll have to share that with

1563
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:31,040
you

1564
00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:31,920
um

1565
00:55:36,630 --> 00:55:34,160
yeah yeah i was working on a screenplay

1566
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:36,640
um which is still in the works but you

1567
00:55:41,190 --> 00:55:38,880
know how all that goes things yeah blah

1568
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:41,200
blah blah but um it's also another

1569
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:43,760
bulletproof case i mean when you have

1570
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:46,240
government files saying that that john

1571
00:55:51,270 --> 00:55:48,720
forgetting his last name had health

1572
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:51,280
problems yeah specifically because he

1573
00:55:55,109 --> 00:55:53,440
was exposed to

1574
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:55,119
was did they use the term uap or they

1575
00:55:59,430 --> 00:55:57,440
used some other term that they

1576
00:56:03,430 --> 00:55:59,440
they i believe what they said was

1577
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:03,440
radiation caused by a

1578
00:56:08,710 --> 00:56:05,280
ufo or

1579
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:08,720
craft of unknown origin

1580
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:10,640
that didn't say exactly what it was but

1581
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:13,280
through other terminology

1582
00:56:18,069 --> 00:56:15,440
right and and like to get his medical

1583
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:18,079
records and to have that on there like

1584
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:19,920
okay so that came from a lighthouse that

1585
00:56:24,309 --> 00:56:22,319
he confused for a freaking lighthouse

1586
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:24,319
you know right there there that

1587
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:25,599
recording

1588
00:56:29,349 --> 00:56:26,400
you know

1589
00:56:31,510 --> 00:56:29,359
of walking up to this object i mean

1590
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:31,520
and there's so much work for both

1591
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:32,480
people

1592
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:34,720
this is all amazing stuff

1593
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:37,119
yep exactly exactly well

1594
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:38,880
that that's my next question for you

1595
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:41,119
what are some of your favorite cases in

1596
00:56:47,349 --> 00:56:44,480
ufo lore um anyone's really stand out to

1597
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:47,359
you or ones you find most compelling it

1598
00:56:51,030 --> 00:56:49,760
just it keeps changing over the years

1599
00:56:53,349 --> 00:56:51,040
yeah

1600
00:56:56,549 --> 00:56:53,359
you know uh

1601
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:56,559
one of the things i'll say is is

1602
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:58,240
there are patterns that happen in our

1603
00:57:02,069 --> 00:57:00,480
community you know whether it's like

1604
00:57:04,069 --> 00:57:02,079
right now the

1605
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:04,079
that that

1606
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:05,920
the the stance of was it the air force

1607
00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:08,079
or department of defense like literally

1608
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,599
saying there are things in our sky that

1609
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:11,599
we're not sure what they are and like a

1610
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:13,200
lot of us are going around circling they

1611
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:14,640
finally said something like that wasn't

1612
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,319
much it wasn't as much as we wanted but

1613
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:18,079
they have said something but they said

1614
00:57:21,510 --> 00:57:19,680
this before

1615
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:21,520
this is all that we've been through all

1616
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:23,040
of this before after blue book there

1617
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:24,880
were several other projects and they all

1618
00:57:29,030 --> 00:57:27,200
ended up saying the same stuff you know

1619
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:29,040
that yeah the government's already said

1620
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:30,240
that there's stuff in the sky and

1621
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:32,319
there's a small percentage they can't

1622
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:34,640
figure out you know like so none of this

1623
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:36,160
is new so

1624
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:38,480
and and then often things just take time

1625
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:40,640
for truth to come out about it so

1626
00:57:44,069 --> 00:57:42,240
there's a time test that has to go so

1627
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:44,079
all the stuff happening now with the uap

1628
00:57:48,309 --> 00:57:46,799
stuff and um the videos i don't think

1629
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:48,319
we'll really know much about it for

1630
00:57:53,190 --> 00:57:50,400
another 10 years like we need time for

1631
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:53,200
things to sit in it the way

1632
00:57:58,710 --> 00:57:56,559
the alien autopsy film um developed over

1633
00:58:00,549 --> 00:57:58,720
the years the way area 51 stories

1634
00:58:01,510 --> 00:58:00,559
developed over the years

1635
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:01,520
um

1636
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:04,400
the anacoma and kind of uh

1637
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,640
comet i'm saying that oh yeah the little

1638
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:08,880
little skeleton guy yeah

1639
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:10,720
i couldn't get excited about any of that

1640
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:12,400
not to just throw it off immediately but

1641
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:14,799
it's like you just wait wait

1642
00:58:18,230 --> 00:58:16,720
these things have have a life of their

1643
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:18,240
own they have to so that's a long way of

1644
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:20,079
saying it's hard to meet it like my

1645
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:21,680
favorite story in the past is not my

1646
00:58:24,230 --> 00:58:23,200
favorite story now

1647
00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,240
gosh

1648
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:26,799
now it is all that jack valet stuff like

1649
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:29,599
things are just too weird and and

1650
00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:30,960
like the experiences that people are

1651
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:34,480
having with ufos and alien contact are

1652
00:58:40,150 --> 00:58:38,000
so inconsistent um

1653
00:58:41,430 --> 00:58:40,160
even with even to that person that it's

1654
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:41,440
happening to

1655
00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:44,319
it just seems like it's it's more of

1656
00:58:48,710 --> 00:58:46,640
a force in the universe that is messing

1657
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:48,720
with us

1658
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:52,549
to question

1659
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:54,880
why you keep pursuing this thing and

1660
00:58:58,630 --> 00:58:56,880
it'll drive you nuts you know like it's

1661
00:59:00,710 --> 00:58:58,640
it's a maze with no end

1662
00:59:02,230 --> 00:59:00,720
i mean it seems to be designed that way

1663
00:59:03,829 --> 00:59:02,240
i mean maybe that's just an extra layer

1664
00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:03,839
para

1665
00:59:06,710 --> 00:59:04,960
that i have

1666
00:59:09,670 --> 00:59:06,720
but every time i hear these stories they

1667
00:59:11,990 --> 00:59:09,680
don't really ever go anywhere you know

1668
00:59:13,829 --> 00:59:12,000
people who have direct contact

1669
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:13,839
who clearly aren't making stuff up like

1670
00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:16,240
some people are clearly making stuff up

1671
00:59:20,069 --> 00:59:18,319
um it still just doesn't make sense the

1672
00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:20,079
end game never makes sense look all the

1673
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:21,760
alien abduction stories we had about

1674
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:23,040
genetics

1675
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:25,440
in in the 80s and 90s and weren't we all

1676
00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:27,520
convinced that that's why

1677
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:28,880
um

1678
00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:30,400
abductions were happening abductions

1679
00:59:33,910 --> 00:59:32,079
were happening because they were they're

1680
00:59:34,789 --> 00:59:33,920
they're cloning technology or that

1681
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:34,799
they're

1682
00:59:38,789 --> 00:59:37,119
living so long that their dna isn't like

1683
00:59:40,470 --> 00:59:38,799
working anymore so they were taking us

1684
00:59:42,549 --> 00:59:40,480
to do experiments to

1685
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:42,559
figure themselves out more but now what

1686
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:45,119
we know about dna like i want your dna

1687
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:47,040
dude i don't have to kidnap you and and

1688
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:48,880
put you in a van and like

1689
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:50,799
jam you with all kinds of stuff i just

1690
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,319
go in your apartment when you're gone

1691
00:59:56,549 --> 00:59:54,079
and i get your dna i could freaking

1692
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:56,559
clone you you know yeah so

1693
00:59:59,109 --> 00:59:58,000
now all of a sudden i look back and i'm

1694
01:00:03,430 --> 00:59:59,119
like

1695
01:00:05,270 --> 01:00:03,440
but why does it why would they need to

1696
01:00:06,390 --> 01:00:05,280
take dna from him

1697
01:00:07,829 --> 01:00:06,400
physically

1698
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:07,839
or anybody

1699
01:00:11,829 --> 01:00:10,079
yeah and he's come to the in conclusion

1700
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:11,839
too like as i've listened to him once or

1701
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:13,520
twice he's gotten older he's gone to

1702
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:14,559
it's all

1703
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,040
jack valet territory you know i mean he

1704
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:19,440
used to be very nuts and bolts

1705
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:21,680
they all go there it the longer you're

1706
01:00:26,789 --> 01:00:23,680
around this the less nuts and bolts it

1707
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:26,799
feels and the more it feels like

1708
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:28,400
like my armchair

1709
01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:29,920
theory not one that i'm married to or

1710
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:32,480
believe is happening but like a maybe

1711
01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:34,559
is that this is something like if you

1712
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:35,520
take a

1713
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:37,920
it's just stuff we don't know it's it's

1714
01:00:41,910 --> 01:00:39,599
it could be very scientific it could be

1715
01:00:43,349 --> 01:00:41,920
like this is a combination of some

1716
01:00:44,150 --> 01:00:43,359
something to do with our consciousness

1717
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:44,160
and

1718
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:46,240
magnetic waves

1719
01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:48,640
that feedback like a bio feedback thing

1720
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:51,280
but into our minds instead of our body

1721
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,280
you know like i know how fruity that

1722
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:55,280
sounds but like i you know it makes as

1723
01:00:58,789 --> 01:00:57,119
much sense as anything else

1724
01:01:01,030 --> 01:00:58,799
you know

1725
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:01,040
uh yeah and it's just it's viable man to

1726
01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:03,359
be honest yeah yeah well

1727
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:05,359
man we could take this in so many

1728
01:01:08,789 --> 01:01:07,200
different ways but i think what it

1729
01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:08,799
really boils down to is you're right

1730
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:11,920
there's a a trickster-ish nature

1731
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:14,880
to all of this that like whatever the

1732
01:01:20,230 --> 01:01:17,280
phenomena is a represents where it comes

1733
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:20,240
from when it comes from um

1734
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:22,319
it's messing with us it's like some big

1735
01:01:26,870 --> 01:01:24,960
performance art piece i kind of look at

1736
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:26,880
it as like what it is like

1737
01:01:29,589 --> 01:01:28,079
yeah

1738
01:01:31,589 --> 01:01:29,599
that's the playwright coming out in me

1739
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:31,599
but i don't know but i do feel like this

1740
01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:34,480
is some big art project um just kind of

1741
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:37,680
being played out to see how we react and

1742
01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:39,839
stuff but that's scary too because

1743
01:01:43,829 --> 01:01:42,079
you're having these ufo events

1744
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,839
where like they're being seen over

1745
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:45,440
nuclear bases

1746
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:47,680
and stuff like that or like

1747
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:50,160
pilots chasing after them and

1748
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:52,880
some even crashing at times and dying so

1749
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:56,000
like they're there there is a stake to

1750
01:01:59,990 --> 01:01:57,920
it even if it is just messing with us

1751
01:02:01,750 --> 01:02:00,000
like look at the tic-tac-toe like and

1752
01:02:03,270 --> 01:02:01,760
what if they had actual weapons during

1753
01:02:04,470 --> 01:02:03,280
that man that's the stuff that kind of

1754
01:02:06,069 --> 01:02:04,480
scares me

1755
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:06,079
yeah and i don't discount the physical

1756
01:02:09,910 --> 01:02:08,160
craft stuff as a possibility too or

1757
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,920
maybe that's in there in the mix

1758
01:02:13,109 --> 01:02:11,440
i i also think it makes a lot of sense

1759
01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:13,119
that maybe the tic tac stuff that we're

1760
01:02:16,470 --> 01:02:14,400
seeing

1761
01:02:19,510 --> 01:02:16,480
like i the idea that it's us in the

1762
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:19,520
future coming back to look at ourselves

1763
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:21,520
statistically makes more sense than

1764
01:02:24,710 --> 01:02:23,520
aliens or some consciousness thing that

1765
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:24,720
we don't know because you only need to

1766
01:02:28,390 --> 01:02:26,880
really make one supposition is that we

1767
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:28,400
don't blow ourselves up for the next

1768
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:31,200
five thousand years and we keep going

1769
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:33,520
our scientific knowledge slowly gets

1770
01:02:36,309 --> 01:02:34,799
higher and higher we would get to the

1771
01:02:38,630 --> 01:02:36,319
point where we could send something back

1772
01:02:40,069 --> 01:02:38,640
in time to look at ourselves

1773
01:02:41,029 --> 01:02:40,079
so that's

1774
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:41,039
makes

1775
01:02:44,069 --> 01:02:43,039
that's easier to handle than anything

1776
01:02:45,349 --> 01:02:44,079
else

1777
01:02:48,069 --> 01:02:45,359
i i don't know that that's what's

1778
01:02:49,589 --> 01:02:48,079
happening at all you know um but again

1779
01:02:51,510 --> 01:02:49,599
there's things that point to it that

1780
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:51,520
that makes sense but then there's all

1781
01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:53,359
these other things that that don't make

1782
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:55,440
sense you know the consciousness the

1783
01:02:58,309 --> 01:02:57,039
calling of ufos through your

1784
01:02:59,349 --> 01:02:58,319
consciousness

1785
01:03:01,430 --> 01:02:59,359
like i'm not saying that it doesn't

1786
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:01,440
happen i you know i think some people

1787
01:03:06,150 --> 01:03:03,920
are having that happen but that just

1788
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:06,160
brings out a lot more questions

1789
01:03:11,349 --> 01:03:08,160
a lot more questions i know it's just

1790
01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:11,359
when we think we found one answer like

1791
01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:14,000
something sets it back another

1792
01:03:19,109 --> 01:03:16,400
50 questions and that's kind of again

1793
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:19,119
yeah the frustrating thing in ufology so

1794
01:03:23,029 --> 01:03:21,200
i'm with a man hey us from the future

1795
01:03:24,630 --> 01:03:23,039
i'm all about it that's kind of where

1796
01:03:27,190 --> 01:03:24,640
i'm at right now where i'm leaning

1797
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:27,200
towards i think it's pretty cool like if

1798
01:03:31,589 --> 01:03:29,760
there's anything to that um i kind of

1799
01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:31,599
hope that's what it is to be completely

1800
01:03:36,309 --> 01:03:34,000
honest and i hope we listen

1801
01:03:39,029 --> 01:03:36,319
listen to our future selves yeah

1802
01:03:41,829 --> 01:03:39,039
we've made it somehow um but how close

1803
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:41,839
of a call is it is you know kind of my

1804
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:44,640
question but um yeah well i i guess kind

1805
01:03:47,589 --> 01:03:46,240
of bringing it back um

1806
01:03:50,309 --> 01:03:47,599
back down to earth i can't believe i

1807
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:50,319
just said that on my own show

1808
01:03:54,390 --> 01:03:52,079
anyways michael um

1809
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:54,400
paranoia you brought that word up and

1810
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:56,240
that's kind of a big thing it's always

1811
01:04:01,910 --> 01:03:59,119
been there in this conspiracy theory

1812
01:04:05,510 --> 01:04:01,920
kind of culture of ufology but

1813
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:05,520
today it's just like a whole other beast

1814
01:04:10,150 --> 01:04:07,839
um in america specifically but all over

1815
01:04:12,390 --> 01:04:10,160
the world as well and we do we live in

1816
01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:12,400
an age of conspiracy theory now fake

1817
01:04:15,029 --> 01:04:13,280
news

1818
01:04:16,549 --> 01:04:15,039
every other buzzword you can think of

1819
01:04:19,029 --> 01:04:16,559
but um

1820
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:19,039
what i find interesting is when blue

1821
01:04:22,630 --> 01:04:21,119
book was first around in the air force

1822
01:04:26,150 --> 01:04:22,640
and whatnot we're trying to

1823
01:04:29,349 --> 01:04:26,160
you know stamp down the the the hysteria

1824
01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:29,359
of ufos invading the country and we

1825
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:31,440
can't stop it and and kind of

1826
01:04:35,670 --> 01:04:33,839
downplaying the phenomena with with blue

1827
01:04:39,510 --> 01:04:35,680
book i mean there's no denying that was

1828
01:04:41,109 --> 01:04:39,520
kind of what it was created for um

1829
01:04:43,029 --> 01:04:41,119
that was an age of paranoia you're

1830
01:04:46,309 --> 01:04:43,039
talking like the early years of the cold

1831
01:04:48,069 --> 01:04:46,319
war and everything and now we live in

1832
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:48,079
the probably worst

1833
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:50,000
conspiracy theory culture we've ever

1834
01:04:55,270 --> 01:04:52,400
experienced and we're also getting these

1835
01:04:57,910 --> 01:04:55,280
huge ufo stories and the government

1836
01:05:00,710 --> 01:04:57,920
getting involved and kind of creating a

1837
01:05:02,870 --> 01:05:00,720
new project blue book in some ways so

1838
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:02,880
what do you make of this whole paranoia

1839
01:05:07,589 --> 01:05:05,520
world we live in and um yeah how does

1840
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:07,599
that reflect on the ufo

1841
01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:10,000
community for you as someone who's you

1842
01:05:13,670 --> 01:05:11,680
know you've always been into the topic

1843
01:05:16,230 --> 01:05:13,680
obviously but now

1844
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:16,240
creating blue book you are all in man

1845
01:05:20,150 --> 01:05:17,280
like

1846
01:05:21,589 --> 01:05:20,160
we're dragging you all in um yeah what

1847
01:05:23,670 --> 01:05:21,599
do you make of all that what do you make

1848
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:23,680
of all of that huge broad question i

1849
01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:24,480
asked

1850
01:05:29,190 --> 01:05:26,240
so skipping the

1851
01:05:30,309 --> 01:05:29,200
social media world issues of conspiracy

1852
01:05:32,549 --> 01:05:30,319
like let's just look at our own

1853
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:32,559
community um i just finished listening

1854
01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:34,799
to the dolan's book the ufo state you

1855
01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:36,960
know um and there's just tons and tons

1856
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:37,680
of

1857
01:05:48,069 --> 01:05:45,200
history and then we know through like

1858
01:05:51,190 --> 01:05:48,079
that that great documentary mirage men

1859
01:05:53,670 --> 01:05:51,200
um or mirrorman um

1860
01:05:57,270 --> 01:05:53,680
you're right yeah about the cia using

1861
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:57,280
the ufo community as a cover for real um

1862
01:05:59,510 --> 01:05:58,319
secret

1863
01:06:01,190 --> 01:05:59,520
projects

1864
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,200
a combination of those two like it's

1865
01:06:05,829 --> 01:06:03,119
just difficult like and i'm not somebody

1866
01:06:07,589 --> 01:06:05,839
who just distrusts but always in the

1867
01:06:09,910 --> 01:06:07,599
back of my head there's a caveat that

1868
01:06:10,950 --> 01:06:09,920
most that so much of this could just be

1869
01:06:14,470 --> 01:06:10,960
lies

1870
01:06:16,309 --> 01:06:14,480
um

1871
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:16,319
like another armchair theory that i have

1872
01:06:22,069 --> 01:06:18,480
about what's going on right now with uap

1873
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:22,079
stuff and and this disclosure seemingly

1874
01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:23,119
um

1875
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:24,960
and maybe you could ask richard this or

1876
01:06:29,109 --> 01:06:26,880
you have an opinion um

1877
01:06:30,789 --> 01:06:29,119
i think it may be

1878
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:30,799
this is just a

1879
01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:33,440
kind of a coup within the government to

1880
01:06:36,309 --> 01:06:34,720
not

1881
01:06:37,510 --> 01:06:36,319
it's the wrong word i want to use coup

1882
01:06:38,630 --> 01:06:37,520
uh

1883
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:38,640
that within the government there are

1884
01:06:42,549 --> 01:06:39,920
people who are just sick of the

1885
01:06:44,150 --> 01:06:42,559
clearances and and the the top secret

1886
01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:44,160
stuff that they don't have access to

1887
01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:46,559
because it's been shelled out to private

1888
01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:48,720
companies imagine being you know we've

1889
01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:50,880
heard the stories of in the ufo

1890
01:06:54,309 --> 01:06:52,319
community of different people of

1891
01:06:56,069 --> 01:06:54,319
different ranks have looked to

1892
01:06:57,990 --> 01:06:56,079
get explanations from people that they

1893
01:06:58,789 --> 01:06:58,000
outranked and were told that you don't

1894
01:07:01,270 --> 01:06:58,799
have

1895
01:07:03,109 --> 01:07:01,280
access to that right so

1896
01:07:04,950 --> 01:07:03,119
i imagine at a certain point this builds

1897
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:04,960
where it's not just ufo stuff but

1898
01:07:09,190 --> 01:07:07,520
there's i bet there's like components to

1899
01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:09,200
i don't know military

1900
01:07:13,829 --> 01:07:11,920
stuff you know uh there's files that

1901
01:07:16,390 --> 01:07:13,839
aren't directly attached to ufos but are

1902
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:16,400
tangentially attached ufos that people

1903
01:07:20,230 --> 01:07:18,640
can't get access to anymore because of

1904
01:07:21,510 --> 01:07:20,240
programs that are hidden within programs

1905
01:07:23,270 --> 01:07:21,520
especially once they go out into the

1906
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:23,280
civilian world

1907
01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:25,280
so all of that means

1908
01:07:29,829 --> 01:07:26,240
i have a

1909
01:07:32,230 --> 01:07:29,839
decent suspicion maybe like a 30

1910
01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:32,240
suspicion that all of this is really

1911
01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:34,720
about clearances behind the scenes that

1912
01:07:38,710 --> 01:07:36,960
in order to to get rid of this problem

1913
01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:38,720
you have to kind of decimate it so they

1914
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:39,839
put out

1915
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:42,480
um all of this information so that it

1916
01:07:46,950 --> 01:07:44,640
becomes more of an open book kind of for

1917
01:07:49,190 --> 01:07:46,960
good reasons because you you know people

1918
01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:49,200
want access to the stuff that's gone

1919
01:07:52,950 --> 01:07:50,240
private

1920
01:07:55,430 --> 01:07:52,960
so i i i'm suspecting a lot of this is

1921
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:55,440
is about that and louis elizondo quite i

1922
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:57,920
actually take at face value but he'll

1923
01:08:01,990 --> 01:08:00,000
tell you this was his job was part of it

1924
01:08:04,549 --> 01:08:02,000
was was co-intel stuff

1925
01:08:06,710 --> 01:08:04,559
and um what a great way to do it you you

1926
01:08:10,230 --> 01:08:06,720
take somebody from the inside you put

1927
01:08:11,750 --> 01:08:10,240
them as a face to say um you know this

1928
01:08:13,029 --> 01:08:11,760
is what's going on within the government

1929
01:08:15,829 --> 01:08:13,039
this is real and stuff and i want to

1930
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:15,839
help disclose it but secretly it really

1931
01:08:19,829 --> 01:08:18,319
has to do with something else um and you

1932
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:19,839
would take somebody like lou who and

1933
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:21,839
again i take him at face value i like i

1934
01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:23,279
like listening to him and i actually

1935
01:08:25,829 --> 01:08:24,480
trust him

1936
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:25,839
but as a caveat there's always a

1937
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:27,359
possibility he's still just doing his

1938
01:08:30,390 --> 01:08:29,040
job and he's really good at it because

1939
01:08:32,950 --> 01:08:30,400
he can talk to you

1940
01:08:34,470 --> 01:08:32,960
very much like on a human level very

1941
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:34,480
much on a um

1942
01:08:38,470 --> 01:08:36,960
a very contrite and and tracer awkward

1943
01:08:40,149 --> 01:08:38,480
uh

1944
01:08:41,349 --> 01:08:40,159
he's just being honest he comes off very

1945
01:08:45,269 --> 01:08:41,359
honest

1946
01:08:47,910 --> 01:08:45,279
people could be trained and sounding

1947
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:47,920
honest you know and again like

1948
01:08:52,309 --> 01:08:50,400
i take him as face value i i i think

1949
01:08:54,149 --> 01:08:52,319
this is all positive stuff going forward

1950
01:08:55,910 --> 01:08:54,159
but in the back of my head i i am afraid

1951
01:08:56,950 --> 01:08:55,920
of the disinformation stuff that here we

1952
01:08:58,630 --> 01:08:56,960
go again

1953
01:09:00,390 --> 01:08:58,640
we're we're going to kick the football

1954
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:00,400
and you know she's just waiting to yank

1955
01:09:03,829 --> 01:09:02,480
it away from us

1956
01:09:05,669 --> 01:09:03,839
damn it lucy

1957
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:05,679
yeah so it's kind of a conspiracy theory

1958
01:09:09,510 --> 01:09:06,960
that yeah maybe this is just more

1959
01:09:11,349 --> 01:09:09,520
disinformation for a mundane reason

1960
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:11,359
which is usually why crazy stuff happens

1961
01:09:15,910 --> 01:09:13,440
it seems like there's a mundane reason

1962
01:09:18,630 --> 01:09:15,920
that you know somebody got fired or

1963
01:09:19,829 --> 01:09:18,640
somebody got promoted or some law was

1964
01:09:20,950 --> 01:09:19,839
passed and it's just because somebody

1965
01:09:21,990 --> 01:09:20,960
has a connection to something and it

1966
01:09:24,630 --> 01:09:22,000
really has nothing to do with anything

1967
01:09:26,229 --> 01:09:24,640
people care about on a visceral level so

1968
01:09:27,669 --> 01:09:26,239
maybe it's just about clearances and

1969
01:09:31,030 --> 01:09:27,679
just trying to like bring down that

1970
01:09:33,269 --> 01:09:31,040
house of cards so they can you know

1971
01:09:36,709 --> 01:09:33,279
have access to files and stuff i i'm not

1972
01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:36,719
sure yeah i that's such a good

1973
01:09:39,269 --> 01:09:37,600
um

1974
01:09:42,550 --> 01:09:39,279
theory because

1975
01:09:44,870 --> 01:09:42,560
we know like elizondo's said um

1976
01:09:46,870 --> 01:09:44,880
christopher mellon the former i believe

1977
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:46,880
deputy secretary

1978
01:09:50,789 --> 01:09:48,799
for intelligence or the senate

1979
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:50,799
intelligence committee i i they have so

1980
01:09:54,310 --> 01:09:52,560
many letters in front of their names and

1981
01:09:57,430 --> 01:09:54,320
everything dude again

1982
01:09:58,550 --> 01:09:57,440
but they they both have said like

1983
01:10:06,310 --> 01:09:58,560
we

1984
01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:06,320
information but there's so much black

1985
01:10:09,430 --> 01:10:07,280
budget

1986
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:09,440
wild west sort of stuff going on in the

1987
01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:12,480
government um where you have no idea

1988
01:10:16,709 --> 01:10:14,640
where those millions of dollars went

1989
01:10:18,790 --> 01:10:16,719
who's working on what so i think you're

1990
01:10:21,350 --> 01:10:18,800
right it could be a way to kind of stamp

1991
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:21,360
that down and be like hey remember

1992
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:23,760
like remember who you guys work for the

1993
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:26,800
public so first of all they need to be

1994
01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:28,400
made aware of certain things to an

1995
01:10:33,350 --> 01:10:30,400
extent like i understand sure national

1996
01:10:35,590 --> 01:10:33,360
security and everything but also like

1997
01:10:37,669 --> 01:10:35,600
we are the government we have congress

1998
01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:37,679
you answer to us so

1999
01:10:42,149 --> 01:10:39,360
if you're working on some

2000
01:10:44,709 --> 01:10:42,159
back engineered alien craft we we need

2001
01:10:46,870 --> 01:10:44,719
to know about it um so who knows the

2002
01:10:48,310 --> 01:10:46,880
theories could could go in many

2003
01:10:50,070 --> 01:10:48,320
different ways but i think you're right

2004
01:10:51,189 --> 01:10:50,080
there seems to be like a

2005
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:51,199
kind of a

2006
01:10:55,510 --> 01:10:53,920
new cold war of like counter

2007
01:10:57,430 --> 01:10:55,520
intelligence going on with all this

2008
01:10:59,590 --> 01:10:57,440
definitely how we're and what

2009
01:11:02,070 --> 01:10:59,600
about it to other nations and stuff like

2010
01:11:03,510 --> 01:11:02,080
that sorry yeah please i was just saying

2011
01:11:05,110 --> 01:11:03,520
why wouldn't there be you know and we

2012
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:05,120
know through history that this is how

2013
01:11:09,350 --> 01:11:07,360
it's worked like we would lie about my

2014
01:11:11,669 --> 01:11:09,360
life's wrong word in these certain

2015
01:11:13,270 --> 01:11:11,679
circumstances but like back in 80s when

2016
01:11:15,189 --> 01:11:13,280
we were talking about uh the star wars

2017
01:11:17,189 --> 01:11:15,199
program that we had basically this sort

2018
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:17,199
of laser proof dome on top of the united

2019
01:11:20,229 --> 01:11:18,960
states that no amount of missiles can

2020
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:20,239
get through so supposedly then the

2021
01:11:23,750 --> 01:11:22,640
russians just ramped up the amount of

2022
01:11:25,270 --> 01:11:23,760
missiles they're making to the point

2023
01:11:26,790 --> 01:11:25,280
that it like helped bankrupt them you

2024
01:11:28,950 --> 01:11:26,800
know and that was basically this

2025
01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:28,960
disinformation um

2026
01:11:33,270 --> 01:11:30,480
one of my other favorite authors andy

2027
01:11:34,229 --> 01:11:33,280
jacobson like her her book about ufos

2028
01:11:36,070 --> 01:11:34,239
um

2029
01:11:37,669 --> 01:11:36,080
she got fed a story well i don't want to

2030
01:11:39,590 --> 01:11:37,679
say fed because i don't know anything

2031
01:11:41,590 --> 01:11:39,600
but you know her story was at roswell

2032
01:11:43,270 --> 01:11:41,600
she was being told by people from the

2033
01:11:45,350 --> 01:11:43,280
inside that it was basically

2034
01:11:47,350 --> 01:11:45,360
disinformation from the russians who

2035
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:47,360
dropped off uh crashed something you

2036
01:11:49,110 --> 01:11:48,400
know the story that they crashed

2037
01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:49,120
something there it was all

2038
01:11:52,870 --> 01:11:51,440
disinformation to get us right

2039
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:52,880
into this thing

2040
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:54,880
that could just well be you know double

2041
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:56,400
disc information or something i don't

2042
01:12:00,390 --> 01:11:58,800
know but it's an example of

2043
01:12:02,870 --> 01:12:00,400
what goes on through history we know

2044
01:12:04,870 --> 01:12:02,880
like this information is real it's it's

2045
01:12:06,870 --> 01:12:04,880
a real tool that's being used so why

2046
01:12:08,630 --> 01:12:06,880
wouldn't it be used now and it seems

2047
01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:08,640
like we consistently kind of fall for

2048
01:12:12,630 --> 01:12:10,640
the same

2049
01:12:15,189 --> 01:12:12,640
football you know um so a lot of it is a

2050
01:12:17,189 --> 01:12:15,199
waiting game um so like i'm trusting lou

2051
01:12:19,189 --> 01:12:17,199
elizando and chris mellon like i think i

2052
01:12:20,709 --> 01:12:19,199
think they're on the up and up

2053
01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:20,719
you know but but i do reserve the fact

2054
01:12:23,590 --> 01:12:22,560
that yeah maybe

2055
01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:23,600
you know maybe i'm lining up for the

2056
01:12:28,070 --> 01:12:24,960
football game

2057
01:12:30,790 --> 01:12:28,080
that's right man yeah keep uh keep one

2058
01:12:33,510 --> 01:12:30,800
cleat you know on the field and one off

2059
01:12:35,110 --> 01:12:33,520
and see what happens i love that one

2060
01:12:37,590 --> 01:12:35,120
sneaker on

2061
01:12:39,350 --> 01:12:37,600
yeah yeah i did one thing i didn't think

2062
01:12:40,950 --> 01:12:39,360
we would talk about was charlie brown so

2063
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:40,960
i'm impressed we did

2064
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:41,760
um

2065
01:12:44,470 --> 01:12:43,040
okay well

2066
01:12:46,149 --> 01:12:44,480
i've got just a couple listener

2067
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:46,159
questions for you mike you've been very

2068
01:12:50,149 --> 01:12:48,880
gracious with your time so i um i don't

2069
01:12:53,110 --> 01:12:50,159
want to keep you too long but you

2070
01:12:54,790 --> 01:12:53,120
mentioned area 51. now i know you guys

2071
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:54,800
talked about this on jimmy church but i

2072
01:13:00,310 --> 01:12:57,840
got to get your opinion on what is this

2073
01:13:02,310 --> 01:13:00,320
story about this marvel comic book

2074
01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:02,320
writer who may have been the

2075
01:13:08,870 --> 01:13:05,760
quote-unquote area 51 caller the famous

2076
01:13:10,550 --> 01:13:08,880
area 51 caller on rpl do you know any

2077
01:13:13,030 --> 01:13:10,560
like is this something you're familiar

2078
01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:13,040
with i'm slightly familiar with it yeah

2079
01:13:17,590 --> 01:13:14,719
would you mind giving us the yeah the

2080
01:13:19,510 --> 01:13:17,600
cliff notes version sure so there's this

2081
01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:19,520
this phone call that was made to to our

2082
01:13:24,149 --> 01:13:21,760
belt back in the 90s called the the

2083
01:13:26,149 --> 01:13:24,159
frantic area 51 caller

2084
01:13:27,669 --> 01:13:26,159
um and it's become

2085
01:13:29,830 --> 01:13:27,679
part of ufo

2086
01:13:31,270 --> 01:13:29,840
lore and legend and um

2087
01:13:33,590 --> 01:13:31,280
it started out it's like your art would

2088
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:33,600
have these open line things right if

2089
01:13:36,950 --> 01:13:35,600
you're a vampire call in blah blah blah

2090
01:13:40,229 --> 01:13:36,960
if you're a time traveler call him blah

2091
01:13:40,950 --> 01:13:40,239
blah blah you know and he had one open

2092
01:13:46,149 --> 01:13:40,960
for

2093
01:13:49,830 --> 01:13:46,159
of area 51 colin and you know you know

2094
01:13:51,830 --> 01:13:49,840
it's fun um maybe there's something real

2095
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,840
being said you know but chances are it's

2096
01:13:55,990 --> 01:13:53,760
just speculation and fun

2097
01:13:57,750 --> 01:13:56,000
um and we were working on a science

2098
01:13:59,590 --> 01:13:57,760
fiction comic called ship of fools which

2099
01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:59,600
had to do with there's a science fiction

2100
01:14:03,430 --> 01:14:01,199
book but i also wrote in conspiracy

2101
01:14:05,590 --> 01:14:03,440
stuff and interdimensional irs agents

2102
01:14:07,590 --> 01:14:05,600
and stuff and the illuminati

2103
01:14:09,910 --> 01:14:07,600
and um

2104
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:09,920
brian decided to call 51 line you're on

2105
01:14:15,669 --> 01:14:11,280
the air hello

2106
01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:15,679
hello art yes hi um i i i i don't have a

2107
01:14:18,950 --> 01:14:17,840
whole lot of time

2108
01:14:21,110 --> 01:14:18,960
um

2109
01:14:23,110 --> 01:14:21,120
well look let's begin by finding out

2110
01:14:25,990 --> 01:14:23,120
whether you're using this line properly

2111
01:14:28,870 --> 01:14:26,000
or not uh area 51. yeah that's right

2112
01:14:30,950 --> 01:14:28,880
were you an employee or are you now i a

2113
01:14:33,350 --> 01:14:30,960
former employee

2114
01:14:35,030 --> 01:14:33,360
i i was let go on a medical discharge

2115
01:14:36,390 --> 01:14:35,040
about a week ago

2116
01:14:38,950 --> 01:14:36,400
and

2117
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:41,350
i i've kind of been running across the

2118
01:14:46,229 --> 01:14:43,440
country um oh man i don't know where to

2119
01:14:50,709 --> 01:14:48,709
they're gonna um they'll triangulate on

2120
01:14:52,149 --> 01:14:50,719
this position really really soon so you

2121
01:14:57,270 --> 01:14:52,159
can't spend a lot of time on the phone

2122
01:15:00,229 --> 01:14:57,280
so give us something quick okay um um

2123
01:15:02,870 --> 01:15:00,239
okay well what we're thinking of as as

2124
01:15:03,990 --> 01:15:02,880
aliens are they're

2125
01:15:06,630 --> 01:15:04,000
uh

2126
01:15:08,310 --> 01:15:06,640
they're they're extra dimensional beings

2127
01:15:11,669 --> 01:15:08,320
that

2128
01:15:14,630 --> 01:15:11,679
an earlier precursor of the um

2129
01:15:15,910 --> 01:15:14,640
space program made contact with

2130
01:15:19,590 --> 01:15:15,920
uh

2131
01:15:24,149 --> 01:15:19,600
they they are not what they claim to be

2132
01:15:27,510 --> 01:15:24,159
uh they have infiltrated a lot of uh

2133
01:15:30,310 --> 01:15:27,520
a lot of aspects of of of the military

2134
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:30,320
establishment particularly the area 51

2135
01:15:35,350 --> 01:15:31,280
uh

2136
01:15:39,189 --> 01:15:36,709
the military

2137
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:39,199
i'm sorry the government knows about

2138
01:15:41,510 --> 01:15:40,320
them

2139
01:15:44,470 --> 01:15:41,520
and

2140
01:15:46,950 --> 01:15:44,480
there's a lot of safe areas in this

2141
01:15:50,870 --> 01:15:46,960
world that they could begin

2142
01:15:52,310 --> 01:15:50,880
moving the population to now aren't

2143
01:15:55,110 --> 01:15:52,320
but they're not doing they're not doing

2144
01:15:57,189 --> 01:15:55,120
anything they're not they want the major

2145
01:15:59,669 --> 01:15:57,199
population centers

2146
01:16:01,030 --> 01:15:59,679
wiped out

2147
01:16:04,709 --> 01:16:01,040
so that the

2148
01:16:06,390 --> 01:16:04,719
few that are left will be more easily

2149
01:16:07,830 --> 01:16:06,400
controllable

2150
01:16:09,510 --> 01:16:07,840
and then he had all the stuff set up and

2151
01:16:10,870 --> 01:16:09,520
he was gonna knock it all over and

2152
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:10,880
pretend like you know he was being like

2153
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:13,679
arrested or caught or whatever

2154
01:16:17,590 --> 01:16:15,600
um and as he's getting to this and and

2155
01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:17,600
then and this is the most important part

2156
01:16:22,790 --> 01:16:19,679
he would say i'm i'm just playing with

2157
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:22,800
your art you know i'm i'm just a fan and

2158
01:16:26,790 --> 01:16:25,280
that this was theater you know this is

2159
01:16:29,030 --> 01:16:26,800
theater it was always intended to be

2160
01:16:30,790 --> 01:16:29,040
that but as he's going on he's saying

2161
01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:30,800
stuff like you know there's these

2162
01:16:34,229 --> 01:16:32,320
disasters coming and the government

2163
01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:34,239
knows where safe areas are and the

2164
01:16:38,310 --> 01:16:35,760
aliens aren't what they seem and they're

2165
01:16:39,270 --> 01:16:38,320
not doing anything as he's saying this

2166
01:16:41,510 --> 01:16:39,280
stuff

2167
01:16:43,270 --> 01:16:41,520
uh the art loses

2168
01:16:45,110 --> 01:16:43,280
contact with the satellite or something

2169
01:16:46,630 --> 01:16:45,120
like something not normal for going off

2170
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:46,640
the air was like the actual satellite

2171
01:16:49,189 --> 01:16:48,400
link or something crazy

2172
01:16:51,270 --> 01:16:49,199
and

2173
01:16:53,030 --> 01:16:51,280
like i don't think it was art looking

2174
01:16:54,950 --> 01:16:53,040
for an opportunity to to make something

2175
01:16:56,790 --> 01:16:54,960
happen uh because it was off air for

2176
01:16:58,790 --> 01:16:56,800
like 10 minutes or something like a

2177
01:17:01,350 --> 01:16:58,800
really long time like death right with

2178
01:17:03,830 --> 01:17:01,360
dj death to a radio show

2179
01:17:05,669 --> 01:17:03,840
right you can't go silent maybe 30

2180
01:17:07,510 --> 01:17:05,679
seconds is like it's like an evil evil

2181
01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:07,520
move going silent i don't know but you

2182
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:09,600
were like 10 minutes or something

2183
01:17:12,390 --> 01:17:11,360
uh brian was completely freaked out

2184
01:17:13,510 --> 01:17:12,400
because like for a while we were

2185
01:17:15,189 --> 01:17:13,520
thinking well maybe he just said

2186
01:17:16,790 --> 01:17:15,199
something that was accidentally too

2187
01:17:18,390 --> 01:17:16,800
close to the truth

2188
01:17:19,910 --> 01:17:18,400
he had the phone records tried to get

2189
01:17:21,430 --> 01:17:19,920
back in touch with art to clear

2190
01:17:23,030 --> 01:17:21,440
everything up

2191
01:17:24,709 --> 01:17:23,040
he never could art either didn't want to

2192
01:17:27,189 --> 01:17:24,719
believe because it was good for the show

2193
01:17:28,870 --> 01:17:27,199
to not believe or i'm sure art gets hit

2194
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:28,880
with all people faking stuff like phone

2195
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:30,480
phone records and things like that all

2196
01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:32,880
the time and it just went on and on and

2197
01:17:36,390 --> 01:17:34,560
on and we couldn't stop and we moved on

2198
01:17:38,709 --> 01:17:36,400
with our lives you know one day i'm

2199
01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:38,719
watching i'm listening to a tool album

2200
01:17:43,189 --> 01:17:41,280
and they took that phone call

2201
01:17:44,950 --> 01:17:43,199
the music band tool and they turned it

2202
01:17:47,189 --> 01:17:44,960
into a song at the end so i'm listening

2203
01:17:49,990 --> 01:17:47,199
i'm drawing and i'm like that's

2204
01:17:51,270 --> 01:17:50,000
that's what is going on so yeah so he

2205
01:17:53,990 --> 01:17:51,280
ended up there there was a movie i think

2206
01:17:56,310 --> 01:17:54,000
was called monopolist that was starts

2207
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:56,320
out with a recreation of his phone call

2208
01:17:59,270 --> 01:17:57,600
um

2209
01:18:00,550 --> 01:17:59,280
and it goes to show these things and

2210
01:18:02,229 --> 01:18:00,560
like like you've had all these

2211
01:18:03,990 --> 01:18:02,239
opportunities tell people

2212
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:04,000
this was meant to be

2213
01:18:06,550 --> 01:18:05,040
theater

2214
01:18:08,790 --> 01:18:06,560
and it blew up in this other thing

2215
01:18:10,550 --> 01:18:08,800
nobody wanted to listen to him nobody no

2216
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:10,560
matter how many times he told it even

2217
01:18:14,390 --> 01:18:12,960
after he went on to to to jimmy's show

2218
01:18:15,430 --> 01:18:14,400
to clear it up

2219
01:18:17,110 --> 01:18:15,440
uh

2220
01:18:19,510 --> 01:18:17,120
you know let's just say he had some

2221
01:18:21,030 --> 01:18:19,520
negative feedback you know even and just

2222
01:18:22,310 --> 01:18:21,040
trying and then there were people just

2223
01:18:24,390 --> 01:18:22,320
said well this is just another layer of

2224
01:18:29,430 --> 01:18:24,400
disinformation you know

2225
01:18:34,470 --> 01:18:31,590
they told him to say that yeah

2226
01:18:36,470 --> 01:18:34,480
no that's a crazy story in it brian

2227
01:18:37,950 --> 01:18:36,480
glass is his name right

2228
01:18:39,830 --> 01:18:37,960
yeah brand jayla

2229
01:18:42,070 --> 01:18:39,840
frankly

2230
01:18:43,669 --> 01:18:42,080
me on books like um

2231
01:18:44,870 --> 01:18:43,679
the mice templar and a bunch of other

2232
01:18:47,110 --> 01:18:44,880
stuff we've worked on together and he's

2233
01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:47,120
worked for marvel and pc

2234
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:48,719
and he's a good guy he's not out to fool

2235
01:18:52,950 --> 01:18:50,400
anybody it's just

2236
01:18:55,030 --> 01:18:52,960
one of these things that it became its

2237
01:18:57,510 --> 01:18:55,040
own life you know there's millions of

2238
01:18:59,189 --> 01:18:57,520
listens to the original video and stuff

2239
01:19:00,790 --> 01:18:59,199
and it's just it's

2240
01:19:02,390 --> 01:19:00,800
been insane and he's not made a single

2241
01:19:04,070 --> 01:19:02,400
penny off of it he never got a single

2242
01:19:06,070 --> 01:19:04,080
job because of it or anything it's

2243
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:06,080
really causing nothing but headaches

2244
01:19:10,390 --> 01:19:08,400
yeah i can imagine especially those who

2245
01:19:12,550 --> 01:19:10,400
believe that he actually it was a

2246
01:19:14,550 --> 01:19:12,560
cover-up and he did work at area 51 this

2247
01:19:17,030 --> 01:19:14,560
that like that's what happens look at

2248
01:19:18,390 --> 01:19:17,040
the world war of the worlds broadcast

2249
01:19:20,470 --> 01:19:18,400
like people

2250
01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:20,480
wanted to believe so much you know that

2251
01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:21,600
they will

2252
01:19:26,550 --> 01:19:23,760
you know it'll cloud your judgment so

2253
01:19:29,270 --> 01:19:26,560
you guys solidified yourselves into ufo

2254
01:19:31,110 --> 01:19:29,280
or far before blue books so i love that

2255
01:19:33,669 --> 01:19:31,120
thank you thanks for telling that man i

2256
01:19:36,790 --> 01:19:33,679
thought that was a really funny story um

2257
01:19:39,430 --> 01:19:36,800
two listener questions for you before um

2258
01:19:41,590 --> 01:19:39,440
before i let you go back to your life um

2259
01:19:43,669 --> 01:19:41,600
oh here we go chris chris on facebook

2260
01:19:46,390 --> 01:19:43,679
wants to know will you be featuring

2261
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:46,400
heinek and other blue book investigators

2262
01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:48,960
in the comic book yeah definitely um i

2263
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:50,880
can't say where when but like one of the

2264
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:53,040
first things i did was um i drew some

2265
01:19:58,630 --> 01:19:56,159
some heinek studies you know

2266
01:20:01,750 --> 01:19:58,640
he's got such a great cartoony face

2267
01:20:03,750 --> 01:20:01,760
yeah yeah um he's great at drawing i

2268
01:20:05,430 --> 01:20:03,760
can't wait for him and you know it'll be

2269
01:20:07,510 --> 01:20:05,440
it'll be fun doing guys like kehoe and

2270
01:20:09,430 --> 01:20:07,520
stuff like we we you know we'll we'll

2271
01:20:11,350 --> 01:20:09,440
get into people that are part of the

2272
01:20:12,950 --> 01:20:11,360
history that you know aren't like major

2273
01:20:14,709 --> 01:20:12,960
stars but

2274
01:20:17,350 --> 01:20:14,719
stars i hate using that that term like

2275
01:20:18,870 --> 01:20:17,360
the celebrity thing you know um but

2276
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:18,880
there are lesser players that are that

2277
01:20:23,430 --> 01:20:21,360
are very important um and yeah we'll be

2278
01:20:26,149 --> 01:20:23,440
seeing lots of these characters

2279
01:20:28,790 --> 01:20:26,159
awesome that's good to know um rick on

2280
01:20:29,910 --> 01:20:28,800
reddit as has a um comic book question

2281
01:20:32,709 --> 01:20:29,920
how is the

2282
01:20:34,310 --> 01:20:32,719
comic book industry changed since you

2283
01:20:35,910 --> 01:20:34,320
first started and

2284
01:20:37,669 --> 01:20:35,920
where it is today i mean obviously

2285
01:20:40,470 --> 01:20:37,679
digital is probably the biggest thing

2286
01:20:42,310 --> 01:20:40,480
but like just in terms of

2287
01:20:44,070 --> 01:20:42,320
even your creative process i would

2288
01:20:44,790 --> 01:20:44,080
imagine is different too

2289
01:20:47,669 --> 01:20:44,800
yeah

2290
01:20:52,070 --> 01:20:47,679
you what do you think

2291
01:20:53,669 --> 01:20:52,080
yeah it's evolved so much so much um

2292
01:20:56,149 --> 01:20:53,679
like

2293
01:20:58,310 --> 01:20:56,159
breaking into comics in the 80s and and

2294
01:21:00,790 --> 01:20:58,320
first doing comics in the early 90s

2295
01:21:02,229 --> 01:21:00,800
there were literally no women creators

2296
01:21:04,550 --> 01:21:02,239
like it just it just wasn't the thing

2297
01:21:05,430 --> 01:21:04,560
there were a few editors some colorists

2298
01:21:06,310 --> 01:21:05,440
um

2299
01:21:09,590 --> 01:21:06,320
and

2300
01:21:11,590 --> 01:21:09,600
over time um that's opened up

2301
01:21:14,310 --> 01:21:11,600
um so that's a huge change and we're

2302
01:21:15,669 --> 01:21:14,320
still working on it but you know i mean

2303
01:21:18,070 --> 01:21:15,679
literally at one point there was just no

2304
01:21:19,990 --> 01:21:18,080
there's nothing you know um

2305
01:21:22,470 --> 01:21:20,000
so there's the cultural acceptance like

2306
01:21:24,470 --> 01:21:22,480
it's it it didn't just become acceptable

2307
01:21:25,830 --> 01:21:24,480
for boys to be reading and making comics

2308
01:21:28,149 --> 01:21:25,840
they started to become everybody in

2309
01:21:30,870 --> 01:21:28,159
different ages so you started from there

2310
01:21:33,270 --> 01:21:30,880
it was like getting everybody to be felt

2311
01:21:35,270 --> 01:21:33,280
welcome to read comics and then the film

2312
01:21:36,950 --> 01:21:35,280
stuff has been the hugest change and

2313
01:21:38,709 --> 01:21:36,960
that really helped

2314
01:21:40,790 --> 01:21:38,719
change things in the industry

2315
01:21:42,709 --> 01:21:40,800
um the biggest changes now are like the

2316
01:21:43,590 --> 01:21:42,719
digital distribution and stuff

2317
01:21:44,950 --> 01:21:43,600
um

2318
01:21:47,110 --> 01:21:44,960
and there are now

2319
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:47,120
so many more ways to get

2320
01:21:49,910 --> 01:21:48,480
to creatively get out there probably in

2321
01:21:52,390 --> 01:21:49,920
the same space as you are whether you're

2322
01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:52,400
looking at patreon kickstarter and other

2323
01:21:56,790 --> 01:21:55,360
fundraisers um this subset thing is

2324
01:21:58,390 --> 01:21:56,800
different but that's a good example

2325
01:22:00,790 --> 01:21:58,400
about how companies are investing in

2326
01:22:03,750 --> 01:22:00,800
comics as a way to communicate ideas and

2327
01:22:06,070 --> 01:22:03,760
stuff so yes it's it's all really really

2328
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:06,080
really changed a lot over the years um

2329
01:22:10,229 --> 01:22:07,440
all for the better

2330
01:22:11,669 --> 01:22:10,239
um one of the problems

2331
01:22:13,430 --> 01:22:11,679
stemmed out of the best thing that

2332
01:22:16,790 --> 01:22:13,440
happened to comics which was comic book

2333
01:22:18,709 --> 01:22:16,800
stores um in the early 80s

2334
01:22:20,709 --> 01:22:18,719
uh comic book stores first started

2335
01:22:21,590 --> 01:22:20,719
popping up and in order to help them

2336
01:22:24,629 --> 01:22:21,600
grow

2337
01:22:26,310 --> 01:22:24,639
i think it was marvel started a program

2338
01:22:29,430 --> 01:22:26,320
with them for uh

2339
01:22:31,189 --> 01:22:29,440
discounts on direct sale books

2340
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:31,199
but what happened was comics stopped

2341
01:22:35,110 --> 01:22:33,040
going to um

2342
01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:35,120
newsstand racks and only to come book

2343
01:22:38,709 --> 01:22:36,000
stores

2344
01:22:40,870 --> 01:22:38,719
so the the the the way to sell comics

2345
01:22:43,830 --> 01:22:40,880
became in specialty stores

2346
01:22:46,390 --> 01:22:43,840
um so it really sort of limited getting

2347
01:22:48,070 --> 01:22:46,400
comics out to the public um and now with

2348
01:22:50,070 --> 01:22:48,080
these different distribution chains and

2349
01:22:51,510 --> 01:22:50,080
now you've got like pen uh penguin

2350
01:22:53,270 --> 01:22:51,520
random houses stepped in and they're

2351
01:22:55,590 --> 01:22:53,280
starting to distribute books

2352
01:22:57,110 --> 01:22:55,600
so it's it's easier to get physical

2353
01:22:59,030 --> 01:22:57,120
comics now and if you can't then there's

2354
01:23:02,310 --> 01:22:59,040
stuff like the sub stack thing you could

2355
01:23:03,350 --> 01:23:02,320
read it on um read bookbook.com and

2356
01:23:05,270 --> 01:23:03,360
there it is for there's there's a

2357
01:23:08,470 --> 01:23:05,280
subscription for it but

2358
01:23:10,229 --> 01:23:08,480
you will also get um james's other weird

2359
01:23:12,310 --> 01:23:10,239
stuff that he's going to be putting out

2360
01:23:13,189 --> 01:23:12,320
um there's lots of material that comes

2361
01:23:15,830 --> 01:23:13,199
with it

2362
01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:15,840
and um yeah there's just this wide open

2363
01:23:19,990 --> 01:23:17,520
thing now i love

2364
01:23:22,870 --> 01:23:20,000
i'm doing world of krypton for for vc

2365
01:23:25,830 --> 01:23:22,880
which is you know very mainstream

2366
01:23:27,830 --> 01:23:25,840
solid comic book stuff uh floppy comics

2367
01:23:30,070 --> 01:23:27,840
that'll be put into a trade doing some

2368
01:23:31,030 --> 01:23:30,080
patreon comic stuff doing the sub stack

2369
01:23:34,950 --> 01:23:31,040
thing

2370
01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:34,960
um i'm open to any form of storytelling

2371
01:23:38,470 --> 01:23:35,760
cool

2372
01:23:40,790 --> 01:23:38,480
yeah i think you know it's really

2373
01:23:43,510 --> 01:23:40,800
democratized i think the industries in

2374
01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:43,520
many ways like you said with me like i'm

2375
01:23:48,790 --> 01:23:46,159
i'm a independent i'm on a network but

2376
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:48,800
i'm i make the show from scratch i don't

2377
01:23:52,149 --> 01:23:51,120
have an editor i don't have you know

2378
01:23:55,189 --> 01:23:52,159
anyone

2379
01:23:56,390 --> 01:23:55,199
like doing anything so it's

2380
01:23:59,350 --> 01:23:56,400
it's a good parallel to what we're

2381
01:24:00,310 --> 01:23:59,360
talking about yeah absolutely

2382
01:24:01,750 --> 01:24:00,320
radio

2383
01:24:04,709 --> 01:24:01,760
um station

2384
01:24:08,229 --> 01:24:04,719
now you're hungry exactly i'm i'm on my

2385
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:08,239
own radio network as it were yeah but

2386
01:24:11,750 --> 01:24:09,760
but then you know you have that struggle

2387
01:24:14,790 --> 01:24:11,760
of you have like spotify creating

2388
01:24:17,030 --> 01:24:14,800
podcasts you know cranking them out or

2389
01:24:18,629 --> 01:24:17,040
um you know some of these big big

2390
01:24:20,310 --> 01:24:18,639
networks and you're like oh i'm kind of

2391
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:20,320
getting lost in the mix but i don't see

2392
01:24:25,750 --> 01:24:22,320
it that way man i again like you said

2393
01:24:28,310 --> 01:24:25,760
like the more people involved i think is

2394
01:24:29,910 --> 01:24:28,320
better for everyone and it just kind of

2395
01:24:32,870 --> 01:24:29,920
you know it introduces you to other

2396
01:24:35,430 --> 01:24:32,880
people so you know i'm all i'm all for

2397
01:24:37,270 --> 01:24:35,440
it go spotify make your shows maybe

2398
01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:37,280
they'll somehow find their you know demi

2399
01:24:41,750 --> 01:24:40,320
lovato premiered a ufo show today on

2400
01:24:43,270 --> 01:24:41,760
i was just talking to my wife about that

2401
01:24:45,110 --> 01:24:43,280
and like she was asking about it and

2402
01:24:46,550 --> 01:24:45,120
stuff and and um

2403
01:24:48,149 --> 01:24:46,560
yeah you know i ultimately i think it's

2404
01:24:49,910 --> 01:24:48,159
a good thing it's it's not gonna be a

2405
01:24:51,270 --> 01:24:49,920
show for you and i it's not gonna be

2406
01:24:53,110 --> 01:24:51,280
show for your listeners for the most

2407
01:24:55,110 --> 01:24:53,120
part you know like i'll watch it it'll

2408
01:24:56,149 --> 01:24:55,120
be curious and fun the hope is that

2409
01:24:58,310 --> 01:24:56,159
people

2410
01:24:59,910 --> 01:24:58,320
however good or bad it is it will just

2411
01:25:01,910 --> 01:24:59,920
open that door up for people to want to

2412
01:25:03,910 --> 01:25:01,920
learn more and to read you know the

2413
01:25:05,110 --> 01:25:03,920
betty barney hill story to look into

2414
01:25:06,629 --> 01:25:05,120
rental shin

2415
01:25:08,070 --> 01:25:06,639
that's what we need from it like the

2416
01:25:11,110 --> 01:25:08,080
whole time to long thing and to the

2417
01:25:15,270 --> 01:25:11,120
stars even the the most hater of haters

2418
01:25:16,870 --> 01:25:15,280
of all of that stuff have to admit

2419
01:25:18,229 --> 01:25:16,880
how that changed the narrative in the

2420
01:25:20,870 --> 01:25:18,239
public's eye

2421
01:25:22,470 --> 01:25:20,880
it was hugely important and if tom

2422
01:25:24,550 --> 01:25:22,480
delong just wants to make t-shirts out

2423
01:25:27,110 --> 01:25:24,560
of like ufo heads or whatever i don't i

2424
01:25:29,590 --> 01:25:27,120
don't know i being kind of snarky there

2425
01:25:31,750 --> 01:25:29,600
he already did something so great for

2426
01:25:34,390 --> 01:25:31,760
the community that that got this

2427
01:25:35,590 --> 01:25:34,400
conversation changed that that changed

2428
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:35,600
the narrative of the way that we're

2429
01:25:38,390 --> 01:25:36,719
perceived

2430
01:25:40,629 --> 01:25:38,400
um that was hugely important and and

2431
01:25:41,830 --> 01:25:40,639
maybe the show will do the same

2432
01:25:45,990 --> 01:25:41,840
hopefully

2433
01:25:48,950 --> 01:25:46,000
episode and she's she's passionate man

2434
01:25:51,189 --> 01:25:48,960
she wants the truth so hey we'll have

2435
01:25:54,149 --> 01:25:51,199
we'll invite anyone into our crazy

2436
01:25:56,229 --> 01:25:54,159
dysfunctional family um if need be you

2437
01:25:57,910 --> 01:25:56,239
like like you said the more people who

2438
01:25:59,910 --> 01:25:57,920
get involved and

2439
01:26:01,669 --> 01:25:59,920
uh ask questions the more normal the

2440
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:01,679
topic becomes the more the

2441
01:26:06,629 --> 01:26:04,239
stigma is shed yeah it was funny some of

2442
01:26:08,950 --> 01:26:06,639
the reaction to like the jj abrams um

2443
01:26:11,590 --> 01:26:08,960
show right oh yeah yeah

2444
01:26:13,430 --> 01:26:11,600
it was the production value was great

2445
01:26:15,350 --> 01:26:13,440
um we were all many of us were

2446
01:26:16,709 --> 01:26:15,360
complaining oh it's kind of the same

2447
01:26:18,550 --> 01:26:16,719
nothing too new

2448
01:26:19,430 --> 01:26:18,560
you know maybe it's misinformation about

2449
01:26:20,709 --> 01:26:19,440
but

2450
01:26:22,870 --> 01:26:20,719
most of us are missing a point that

2451
01:26:24,470 --> 01:26:22,880
that's that's not here to benefit us

2452
01:26:27,270 --> 01:26:24,480
like we live in this world we're getting

2453
01:26:29,030 --> 01:26:27,280
this information all the time we need

2454
01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:29,040
shows like that to get more people

2455
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:30,880
seriously interested in it and to take

2456
01:26:33,830 --> 01:26:32,159
it seriously

2457
01:26:35,350 --> 01:26:33,840
um so those are these are all great

2458
01:26:37,030 --> 01:26:35,360
opportunities there's like skinwalker

2459
01:26:38,950 --> 01:26:37,040
ranch and stuff and even ancient aliens

2460
01:26:40,149 --> 01:26:38,960
for i don't like what it's turned into

2461
01:26:41,830 --> 01:26:40,159
but

2462
01:26:44,070 --> 01:26:41,840
it was an important part of opening up

2463
01:26:46,709 --> 01:26:44,080
the narrative to to people who aren't

2464
01:26:50,149 --> 01:26:46,719
studying it all the time oh totally i um

2465
01:26:52,790 --> 01:26:50,159
i work with the alien h aliens company

2466
01:26:54,709 --> 01:26:52,800
prometheus uh with their alien cons

2467
01:26:56,790 --> 01:26:54,719
these big conferences that they put on

2468
01:26:58,950 --> 01:26:56,800
for ancient aliens fans and the reason

2469
01:27:01,669 --> 01:26:58,960
they brought me on was to be like okay

2470
01:27:03,189 --> 01:27:01,679
we we have our thing it's pop culture

2471
01:27:05,510 --> 01:27:03,199
these people they're they're going to

2472
01:27:07,270 --> 01:27:05,520
bring their families have fun um but we

2473
01:27:09,750 --> 01:27:07,280
want them to learn the real history of

2474
01:27:11,669 --> 01:27:09,760
ufos so they started bringing in me they

2475
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:11,679
started bringing in richard dolan and i

2476
01:27:14,070 --> 01:27:13,199
thought that was great it's like all

2477
01:27:15,189 --> 01:27:14,080
right

2478
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:15,199
maybe

2479
01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:17,520
sucralose big hair dude and

2480
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:19,920
aliens and pyramids brought you here but

2481
01:27:24,709 --> 01:27:22,880
like here's the actual history of ufos

2482
01:27:26,229 --> 01:27:24,719
and 100

2483
01:27:27,669 --> 01:27:26,239
yeah like i'm sure you saw it when

2484
01:27:29,510 --> 01:27:27,679
you're at the con people who came in oh

2485
01:27:30,870 --> 01:27:29,520
yeah had a lark they had nothing else to

2486
01:27:32,790 --> 01:27:30,880
do and they just dragged their kids in

2487
01:27:34,950 --> 01:27:32,800
that day but then they start talking to

2488
01:27:36,709 --> 01:27:34,960
you and they're like hey wait a minute

2489
01:27:38,550 --> 01:27:36,719
oh that was my first night

2490
01:27:39,830 --> 01:27:38,560
so i had an experience and then they

2491
01:27:41,270 --> 01:27:39,840
they realized they were a little closer

2492
01:27:43,110 --> 01:27:41,280
than they even ever thought that they

2493
01:27:45,750 --> 01:27:43,120
were and they started looking into it so

2494
01:27:46,470 --> 01:27:45,760
like all this stuff is fairly good

2495
01:27:49,510 --> 01:27:46,480
yeah

2496
01:27:51,430 --> 01:27:49,520
exactly it is what it is um last two

2497
01:27:53,990 --> 01:27:51,440
questions for you mike um can you tell

2498
01:27:56,070 --> 01:27:54,000
us a little about the hero initiative i

2499
01:27:57,750 --> 01:27:56,080
just learned about this um on your

2500
01:27:59,350 --> 01:27:57,760
website and i thought it was awesome

2501
01:28:01,590 --> 01:27:59,360
yeah would you mind telling us a little

2502
01:28:04,390 --> 01:28:01,600
about that thanks man that is so awesome

2503
01:28:06,070 --> 01:28:04,400
um so the comic books they

2504
01:28:08,470 --> 01:28:06,080
they don't have any safety nets for

2505
01:28:11,510 --> 01:28:08,480
anybody like um there's no retirement

2506
01:28:14,229 --> 01:28:11,520
plans there's no health care um you're

2507
01:28:16,629 --> 01:28:14,239
completely on your own financially

2508
01:28:17,910 --> 01:28:16,639
in every way there's no there's no 401ks

2509
01:28:19,189 --> 01:28:17,920
or anything like that

2510
01:28:21,750 --> 01:28:19,199
so a lot of us

2511
01:28:23,669 --> 01:28:21,760
get into financial trouble um usually

2512
01:28:26,229 --> 01:28:23,679
through health issues but there's other

2513
01:28:28,310 --> 01:28:26,239
issues too you know um but

2514
01:28:30,550 --> 01:28:28,320
um the heroes initiative is there to

2515
01:28:32,870 --> 01:28:30,560
help combo creators who

2516
01:28:35,430 --> 01:28:32,880
are struggling um and and i said it's

2517
01:28:37,110 --> 01:28:35,440
typically like a health thing with us

2518
01:28:38,470 --> 01:28:37,120
i've been working for them for like 20

2519
01:28:39,270 --> 01:28:38,480
something years

2520
01:28:41,189 --> 01:28:39,280
um

2521
01:28:43,270 --> 01:28:41,199
since they started and it was always

2522
01:28:45,590 --> 01:28:43,280
this kind of like

2523
01:28:47,350 --> 01:28:45,600
snarky jersey joke i'm like oh i'm only

2524
01:28:49,110 --> 01:28:47,360
doing all this so that you know i'll

2525
01:28:50,790 --> 01:28:49,120
need them one day you know it's like a

2526
01:28:52,070 --> 01:28:50,800
joke to like play off that you're doing

2527
01:28:54,470 --> 01:28:52,080
something decent

2528
01:28:56,149 --> 01:28:54,480
um and then taki my wife taki was

2529
01:28:58,149 --> 01:28:56,159
diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in

2530
01:28:59,590 --> 01:28:58,159
2017 i think

2531
01:29:01,830 --> 01:28:59,600
um

2532
01:29:04,149 --> 01:29:01,840
and not only is that as scary as it

2533
01:29:07,189 --> 01:29:04,159
sounds but financially the immediate

2534
01:29:09,270 --> 01:29:07,199
help that she needed would have cost

2535
01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:09,280
it's over ten thousand dollars um it's

2536
01:29:14,709 --> 01:29:13,120
an infusion of um of medications

2537
01:29:16,149 --> 01:29:14,719
and um

2538
01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:16,159
the options where she'd get that or

2539
01:29:18,870 --> 01:29:17,840
she'd get a lesser

2540
01:29:19,910 --> 01:29:18,880
treatment

2541
01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:19,920
you know

2542
01:29:23,270 --> 01:29:22,000
um and at this point it was bad enough

2543
01:29:24,390 --> 01:29:23,280
that when we brought her into hospital

2544
01:29:26,550 --> 01:29:24,400
she was in full blown what's called a

2545
01:29:28,470 --> 01:29:26,560
flare up like her arm is curled in like

2546
01:29:30,550 --> 01:29:28,480
this she can't use her left hand

2547
01:29:32,470 --> 01:29:30,560
we far as far away knew this was this

2548
01:29:35,270 --> 01:29:32,480
was her life you know

2549
01:29:36,790 --> 01:29:35,280
um and her initiative within like a day

2550
01:29:39,030 --> 01:29:36,800
24 hours or something like that god

2551
01:29:40,629 --> 01:29:39,040
that's approved for this

2552
01:29:42,070 --> 01:29:40,639
um

2553
01:29:44,950 --> 01:29:42,080
for the money to pay for this first

2554
01:29:48,310 --> 01:29:44,960
treatment and it got us covered she got

2555
01:29:49,990 --> 01:29:48,320
uh care right away and um

2556
01:29:51,750 --> 01:29:50,000
them helping us

2557
01:29:53,270 --> 01:29:51,760
then helped us find other programs to be

2558
01:29:54,470 --> 01:29:53,280
able to continue to pay for the

2559
01:29:56,229 --> 01:29:54,480
treatment and stuff something we might

2560
01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:56,239
not be able to do on our own and they've

2561
01:29:59,669 --> 01:29:57,840
done this several times

2562
01:30:01,110 --> 01:29:59,679
a lot of times with artists some who

2563
01:30:02,950 --> 01:30:01,120
have died some who have passed away

2564
01:30:04,950 --> 01:30:02,960
because of their you know

2565
01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:04,960
friend with cancer who died

2566
01:30:09,189 --> 01:30:07,760
um others that they've helped out and

2567
01:30:11,430 --> 01:30:09,199
then it's not all health care stuff some

2568
01:30:13,110 --> 01:30:11,440
of it is just you know you work and you

2569
01:30:13,830 --> 01:30:13,120
live check to check like a lot of people

2570
01:30:16,070 --> 01:30:13,840
do

2571
01:30:17,910 --> 01:30:16,080
and then one day those checks

2572
01:30:19,189 --> 01:30:17,920
aren't coming in very often anymore

2573
01:30:21,510 --> 01:30:19,199
because

2574
01:30:22,790 --> 01:30:21,520
well you get old or you can't draw or

2575
01:30:24,149 --> 01:30:22,800
write the way you used to you just fall

2576
01:30:26,390 --> 01:30:24,159
out of favor there's all sorts of

2577
01:30:27,990 --> 01:30:26,400
reasons um there's ages there's a thing

2578
01:30:29,590 --> 01:30:28,000
in comics just like every every place

2579
01:30:31,590 --> 01:30:29,600
else um

2580
01:30:32,950 --> 01:30:31,600
and you can get yourself into into a bad

2581
01:30:34,310 --> 01:30:32,960
spot and the hero's initiative is there

2582
01:30:35,830 --> 01:30:34,320
to help out and they do it through

2583
01:30:37,510 --> 01:30:35,840
donations so

2584
01:30:40,070 --> 01:30:37,520
um if you want to support creative

2585
01:30:41,910 --> 01:30:40,080
people in hard times uh heroinitive.com

2586
01:30:43,990 --> 01:30:41,920
is a great place to go

2587
01:30:47,030 --> 01:30:44,000
that's awesome man and yeah i mean it's

2588
01:30:48,390 --> 01:30:47,040
sad that like it had to be a choice you

2589
01:30:51,270 --> 01:30:48,400
know between

2590
01:30:52,550 --> 01:30:51,280
full treatment or a lesser like that

2591
01:30:54,790 --> 01:30:52,560
shouldn't be

2592
01:30:57,750 --> 01:30:54,800
the way it is especially here in america

2593
01:30:59,669 --> 01:30:57,760
so i think that's awesome i you know as

2594
01:31:02,790 --> 01:30:59,679
someone who had a

2595
01:31:05,110 --> 01:31:02,800
very sick mother my whole life um it was

2596
01:31:07,110 --> 01:31:05,120
the same way like my father was the only

2597
01:31:09,270 --> 01:31:07,120
one who could work and he did everything

2598
01:31:11,110 --> 01:31:09,280
he could to like help her get the

2599
01:31:12,229 --> 01:31:11,120
treatment she needed but it was tough

2600
01:31:13,990 --> 01:31:12,239
and there were

2601
01:31:16,550 --> 01:31:14,000
times where you just had to make

2602
01:31:19,030 --> 01:31:16,560
sacrifices but it shouldn't be that way

2603
01:31:20,950 --> 01:31:19,040
so i i think that's awesome and and i

2604
01:31:23,590 --> 01:31:20,960
know it's not just for health issues as

2605
01:31:26,070 --> 01:31:23,600
well and people don't know like it

2606
01:31:29,270 --> 01:31:26,080
doesn't matter if you're a broadway

2607
01:31:31,430 --> 01:31:29,280
actor or you're working for marvel like

2608
01:31:34,709 --> 01:31:31,440
these jobs are temporary that's why

2609
01:31:36,070 --> 01:31:34,719
we're artists so yeah it's it's

2610
01:31:37,590 --> 01:31:36,080
the paychecks

2611
01:31:39,830 --> 01:31:37,600
it's not like like you said you're not

2612
01:31:42,390 --> 01:31:39,840
on every good month i have where a good

2613
01:31:45,430 --> 01:31:42,400
amount of money comes in i can go months

2614
01:31:46,950 --> 01:31:45,440
without any any check without any income

2615
01:31:48,870 --> 01:31:46,960
you know and i'm working

2616
01:31:50,550 --> 01:31:48,880
but you have to this is the way it works

2617
01:31:52,070 --> 01:31:50,560
out like sometimes you'll get paid three

2618
01:31:54,550 --> 01:31:52,080
months after finishing the job or

2619
01:31:56,550 --> 01:31:54,560
something you know yeah um

2620
01:31:57,910 --> 01:31:56,560
you know and then you you

2621
01:31:59,669 --> 01:31:57,920
you change your life to live around that

2622
01:32:01,189 --> 01:31:59,679
way and it's fine you know but sometimes

2623
01:32:02,950 --> 01:32:01,199
you get into a jam

2624
01:32:04,709 --> 01:32:02,960
yep and that's what the hero initiatives

2625
01:32:05,910 --> 01:32:04,719
were i love that that's so cool thanks

2626
01:32:07,830 --> 01:32:05,920
for bringing it up

2627
01:32:11,030 --> 01:32:07,840
of course of course and of course last

2628
01:32:13,350 --> 01:32:11,040
question you mentioned your patreon um i

2629
01:32:15,750 --> 01:32:13,360
i've read the first four pages you sent

2630
01:32:16,870 --> 01:32:15,760
me of galaxy of madness but please tell

2631
01:32:18,790 --> 01:32:16,880
me about

2632
01:32:20,790 --> 01:32:18,800
yeah yeah please no you did i just

2633
01:32:23,590 --> 01:32:20,800
haven't gotten too well

2634
01:32:25,990 --> 01:32:23,600
yeah um i was too busy reading more

2635
01:32:28,229 --> 01:32:26,000
about betty and barney hill um tell us

2636
01:32:29,270 --> 01:32:28,239
about galaxy of madness man this sounds

2637
01:32:31,510 --> 01:32:29,280
awesome

2638
01:32:33,669 --> 01:32:31,520
dallas madness is total fiction it's a

2639
01:32:35,110 --> 01:32:33,679
science fiction thing um but i think

2640
01:32:36,870 --> 01:32:35,120
people who are interested in this field

2641
01:32:37,750 --> 01:32:36,880
would be interested in the comic as far

2642
01:32:40,149 --> 01:32:37,760
as

2643
01:32:41,590 --> 01:32:40,159
a it's fun and so it's a fun read it's

2644
01:32:44,229 --> 01:32:41,600
not a heavy

2645
01:32:45,110 --> 01:32:44,239
emotionally turmoily kind of kind of

2646
01:32:47,350 --> 01:32:45,120
thing

2647
01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:47,360
um and the basic story is about a girl

2648
01:32:51,669 --> 01:32:49,120
named uh

2649
01:32:54,790 --> 01:32:51,679
vigil virgo whose parents

2650
01:32:57,030 --> 01:32:54,800
were a space archaeologist and basically

2651
01:32:59,110 --> 01:32:57,040
discovered a secret about the universe

2652
01:33:00,709 --> 01:32:59,120
that was so big that they had to leave

2653
01:33:02,390 --> 01:33:00,719
her behind to go explore it and they

2654
01:33:04,470 --> 01:33:02,400
left her in charge of this guy who's

2655
01:33:06,310 --> 01:33:04,480
basically her her foster father and they

2656
01:33:08,470 --> 01:33:06,320
completely disappeared

2657
01:33:09,990 --> 01:33:08,480
she's now in following their tracks to

2658
01:33:12,310 --> 01:33:10,000
discover what did they discover about

2659
01:33:15,750 --> 01:33:12,320
the universe that was so

2660
01:33:17,590 --> 01:33:15,760
um dangerous and big and crazy that they

2661
01:33:19,910 --> 01:33:17,600
they're gone and i've got to go follow

2662
01:33:21,350 --> 01:33:19,920
in their footsteps and the foster father

2663
01:33:23,990 --> 01:33:21,360
who is like a father to her and they

2664
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:24,000
they do love each other keeps kind of

2665
01:33:29,030 --> 01:33:26,320
sabotaging her along the way so it's

2666
01:33:30,870 --> 01:33:29,040
this great father-daughter relationship

2667
01:33:32,149 --> 01:33:30,880
on top of fun stuff that we like

2668
01:33:35,750 --> 01:33:32,159
archaeology

2669
01:33:37,430 --> 01:33:35,760
um the the origins of the universe uh

2670
01:33:39,830 --> 01:33:37,440
consciousness like all these things are

2671
01:33:42,310 --> 01:33:39,840
sort of tied into the into the comic and

2672
01:33:43,750 --> 01:33:42,320
it's just fun characters and um and

2673
01:33:45,669 --> 01:33:43,760
again because on patreon you don't need

2674
01:33:48,470 --> 01:33:45,679
to go to a comic book store to find it

2675
01:33:49,750 --> 01:33:48,480
um i think our basic subscription is

2676
01:33:52,470 --> 01:33:49,760
five dollars

2677
01:33:55,510 --> 01:33:52,480
every every month you get uh 22 pages pl

2678
01:33:57,910 --> 01:33:55,520
plus 20 more than 22 pages plus a bunch

2679
01:33:59,669 --> 01:33:57,920
of extras behind the scenes stuff and um

2680
01:34:02,870 --> 01:33:59,679
it's a lot of fun and just you know go

2681
01:34:05,990 --> 01:34:02,880
to patreon dot com forward slash galaxy

2682
01:34:08,870 --> 01:34:06,000
of madness and um see if you like it

2683
01:34:11,189 --> 01:34:08,880
i'm there man that sounds so cool i love

2684
01:34:14,550 --> 01:34:11,199
that i love stories like that that's so

2685
01:34:16,950 --> 01:34:14,560
cool um awesome well of course last

2686
01:34:18,950 --> 01:34:16,960
question where can we find blue book and

2687
01:34:21,030 --> 01:34:18,960
everything you're up to mike

2688
01:34:22,750 --> 01:34:21,040
um the easiest way to find blue book

2689
01:34:24,629 --> 01:34:22,760
online is to go to

2690
01:34:26,550 --> 01:34:24,639
readbluebook.com

2691
01:34:28,550 --> 01:34:26,560
super simple read bluebook.com that

2692
01:34:29,510 --> 01:34:28,560
brings you to jamestinian's sub stack

2693
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:29,520
page

2694
01:34:33,669 --> 01:34:31,440
um but it goes right to the blue book

2695
01:34:34,870 --> 01:34:33,679
stuff uh so that's a great place to

2696
01:34:35,990 --> 01:34:34,880
check it out the first issue is

2697
01:34:37,030 --> 01:34:36,000
absolutely free and then you can

2698
01:34:38,870 --> 01:34:37,040
consider whether or not you want to

2699
01:34:39,830 --> 01:34:38,880
follow up on the rest or just hold off

2700
01:34:40,870 --> 01:34:39,840
until

2701
01:34:42,390 --> 01:34:40,880
we eventually figure out a way to

2702
01:34:44,550 --> 01:34:42,400
publish it and stuff

2703
01:34:46,470 --> 01:34:44,560
um but we're concentrating on on this

2704
01:34:47,669 --> 01:34:46,480
format first uh that's that's the

2705
01:34:49,510 --> 01:34:47,679
easiest way and then you can find me

2706
01:34:51,910 --> 01:34:49,520
anywhere online as you can see under

2707
01:34:54,390 --> 01:34:51,920
under my my face there i guess there

2708
01:34:57,750 --> 01:34:54,400
there we go there you go yeah at oming

2709
01:34:59,350 --> 01:34:57,760
both on twitter and uh instagram

2710
01:35:02,550 --> 01:34:59,360
awesome man and we'll have links in the

2711
01:35:04,310 --> 01:35:02,560
show notes for everything and um

2712
01:35:05,910 --> 01:35:04,320
oh will will we be seeing a print

2713
01:35:07,109 --> 01:35:05,920
edition of blue book is that ever going

2714
01:35:09,590 --> 01:35:07,119
to happen

2715
01:35:11,030 --> 01:35:09,600
eventually eventually not on the radar

2716
01:35:12,390 --> 01:35:11,040
right now because we've got to do the

2717
01:35:14,149 --> 01:35:12,400
work and stuff

2718
01:35:16,950 --> 01:35:14,159
yeah you've got a big story to tell

2719
01:35:18,870 --> 01:35:16,960
still which uh which i is awesome too

2720
01:35:21,350 --> 01:35:18,880
you mentioned digitally you will have

2721
01:35:22,870 --> 01:35:21,360
the luxury of if you need to change

2722
01:35:25,510 --> 01:35:22,880
something or want to change something

2723
01:35:27,270 --> 01:35:25,520
you can which is pretty cool yeah it's

2724
01:35:29,109 --> 01:35:27,280
like getting the director's cut almost i

2725
01:35:31,590 --> 01:35:29,119
love it

2726
01:35:34,550 --> 01:35:31,600
well i have kept you far longer than i

2727
01:35:37,750 --> 01:35:34,560
told you we were gonna be so please go

2728
01:35:39,189 --> 01:35:37,760
work on bluebook i'm so excited for

2729
01:35:40,950 --> 01:35:39,199
whatever comes next with that and

2730
01:35:42,149 --> 01:35:40,960
everything you're doing and of course

2731
01:35:44,070 --> 01:35:42,159
thank you so much for coming on

2732
01:35:45,350 --> 01:35:44,080
somewhere in the skies thanks man i

2733
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really really appreciate it thanks so

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[Music]